It just took a ride to decide

[zsadecki]

I got my first rides today in a -6A and -7 (thanks Phil and Keith!). Phil was kind enough to let me taxi, takeoff, fly, and land in his 6A. Keith on the otherhand let me taxi and fly his -7, but takeoff and landing was all him (a good thing, too). It sealed the deal for me, and I'll definitely be ordering a nosewheel for mine! Here are my (110 hr. private pilot) observations...

What a pain to taxi a taildragger! Always 'dancing' on the pedals just to keep it on the taxiway. Can't see where you're going. Wind gusts push you around pretty good too. The -6A was a piece of cake to taxi, nearly identical to the Symphony I took my private checkride in (also had a castering nosewheel).

On takeoff, same deal. Can't see what's on the runway until the tail comes up. Keith was very busy with the rudder the whole time, too..

The landing in the 6A was no problem. I was a little too zealous with the elevator, but for my first landing attempt in a RV, it wasn't too bad. An hour later in the 7, Keith had to really work to get that thing down, and had a couple little bounces, too (keep in mind that this guy is an airline pilot, and has flown his RV for a good number of hours now, too). And he even commented that they are much less forgiving of things like not landing perfectly straight down the runway, etc.

And after flying in both, I can understand why insurance rates are less for the nosedraggers now, too!

All of this adds up to make sure I ask for a third big wheel on my fuselage order form!

[Jerry Carter]

Good decision, Zach. But this debate will never end! My neighbor in the adjacent hangar at my airport put a cute little bumper-sticker on his door, facing my door which says, "Real Aviators Fly Taildraggers." Turns out that most of them are hunkered down in their hangars on days when the wind is howling across the runway! Flame suit on!

Good luck!

Jerry Carter
RV-8A
440 hrs
499 ground-loop free landings! (****, I should have made one more this morning!)

[gmcjetpilot]

Originally Posted by zsadecki

What a pain to taxi a taildragger! Always 'dancing' on the pedals just to keep it on the taxiway.

On takeoff, same deal. Can't see what's on the runway until the tail comes up. Keith was very busy with the rudder the whole time, too..

The landing in the 6A was no problem. I was a little too zealous with the elevator, but for my first landing attempt in a RV, it wasn't too bad.

He even commented that they are much less forgiving of things like not landing perfectly straight down the runway, etc.

And after flying in both, I can understand why insurance rates are less for the nosedraggers now, too!

All of this adds up to make sure I ask for a third big wheel on my fuselage order form!

Zsadecki congrats I can see your are happy about your decision. I think it is a good choice for a 110 hour pvt who learned in a tricycle airplane. Not a put down but you are exaggerating the difficulty of conventional gear RV's and perpetuating a myth that TG's are hard to fly, I mean taxi, takeoff and land.

Your comments "very busy" (on take off) and "'dancing' on the pedals" (to taxi) are just not bore out in my 800 RV experience.

It is easier to taxi a tail dragger RV than a "A" model on my opinion. It's like driving a car, you can move the steering wheel back and forth or just hold it steady and make small corrections. You can dance on the pedals or hold them still. You have precise steering with a tail dragger. You have NO steering with an "A" model, which is always trying to weather vain into the wind. With a model "A" you will be jabbing your brakes (wearing them out) to go straight since there is nothing keeping it going straight.

A tail wheel has positive steering thru the cables. Look I hardly move my feet to taxi. If the peddels are straight, the tail wheel is straight and guess what, you are going straight. Period


Take off: Again like taxi. I slowly apply anti-left turning controls. You make it sound like a tap dance. Yes some times you make a small correction and take it out; you or your friend may be over controlling and doing way more work than necessary. Again except for real gusty winds I hardly move my feet except for the routine inputs that are done by reflex with out having to think about it.

As far as tail dragger?s and hiding with a cross wind that is just a silly thing for a 110 hour pilot to say. The physics, geometry and control authority gives no advantage to the RV-A, with that swiveling grocery cartwheel wheel hanging out on the end of a long thin spindly bendy springy thing below the cowl. Trust me (or read about all the RV-A landing accidents) you can loose control of ANY RV landing in a slip and without proper control inputs.

I agree there is more technique and a little less forgiving characteristic in a tail dragger. If you are making good smooth constant RV-A landings, nose high attitude (not flat), near stall (near not stall) with the long axis of the plane aligned with the runway which is also the vector of travel, by using the proper control or cross control input for a side slip, than go fly a tail dragger. Than tell me how hard it is. It is the same thing, except as the airspeed bleeds off after touch down , the aircraft rotates forward or aft about the mains until the appropriate 3rd wheel touches. Jab brakes or elegantly steer with your feet. No big deal.

If you have a x-wind you should be landing on ONE (upwind main) wheel and roll out as long as possible on that one wheel, until the ailerons run out and the down wind wheel touches down.

Glad you are happy about your choice, like I said it is a choice and I think a good one for you. As far as insurance I will pay less than you because of time in type, ratings and total time.

Cheers George RV-4/RV-7

[rv8ch]

George, slightly off-topic, but why are you building a 7 instead of an 8? Coming from the 4, did you just get tired of the excellent visibility?

PS: I enjoy your taildragger posts!

[Captain_John]

George,

Great post!

I like the -7 for the panel space.

I am dreaming about a panel that will make professional pilots green with envy.



The side by side seating, is preferable to me for instrument work. It gives the pilots the ability to point to and share flight information more easily too.

You can also delegate things like radio and navigation tuning to the other pilot in the side by side, which you cannot do in the centerline configuration.

Taildragger fore sure! Not EVERYONE can fly my plane!

CJ

[Jconard]

I chose the taildragger because I wanted some chance of surviving an off airport landing if I had to make one.

Your chance of staying right side up in an "A" model is zero or very close to zero. Your chance of surviving a nose over, appears to also be zero or next to zero.

Tailwheel is easy to fly if you use correct technique. I am only a 400hr pilot with 150 hr tailwheel, but I must say the tailwheel steering is positive and direct and lends excellent control.

I am pretty sure I can get a TW down in winds that most of the nose wheel guys can't simply because I have kept my skills sharp.

[N916K]

Originally Posted by Jconard

I chose the taildragger because I wanted some chance of surviving an off airport landing if I had to make one.

Your chance of staying right side up in an "A" model is zero or very close to zero. Your chance of surviving a nose over, appears to also be zero or next to zero.

I know you're quite proud of your flying ability, but WOW, those kind of comments really hurt general aviation. Just keep spreading ignorance like that and we won't have a friend anywhere. The media already loves to run us down.

[Jconard]

Quote:

"I know you're quite proud of your flying ability, but WOW, those kind of comments really hurt general aviation. Just keep spreading ignorance like that and we won't have a friend anywhere. The media already loves to run us down."

I am not saying anything about my ability, just that the chance of surviving an off airport landing in a nose gear RV seems pretty low...not ignorance at all if you look at the numbers.

A nose over is a much lower possibility in an off airport landing in a tailwheel. And, the probability of power reduction/failure is not insiginificant...so if I had to make an engine out, off airport landing, I wanted it to be as survivable as possible.

Outcomes should be discussed in terms of probability, not sales effort. Is a trike easier to land...probably. Is it more likely to nose over on grass or off a field..yes of course! One more thing to consider.

[L.Adamson]

Originally Posted by Jconard

Quote:

A nose over is a much lower possibility in an off airport landing in a tailwheel.

Sure..................... If you leave the wheel pants off! Weeds and mud will do a great job of locking up the wheels, & over you go! I've seen one for myself, that did just that.

L.Adamson

[robertahegy]

This thread was meant to be a fun, non serious bantering of nosegear VS tailwheel opinions. Both are great and both can be misused. Both are beautiful, afterall, they are RVs!! Please!!! No bloodshed. Keep it fun.

Roberta