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Originally Posted by MS19087
Just about to order a new 0-320 for my RV-9A then comes the news about Precision stopping production . . . anyone have an update on this? It seems amazing that the industry used a single source for such a critical component.
Now the question is should I go Fuel Injection? I will need to do some minor rework of my firewall . . . overall carbs are simple, reliable, easy install and my experience shows easier to start - especially when engine is hot. FI can be tricky - at least on the C172 SP (IO-360) that I fly.
Any comments on my choice???
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My advice is towards Experimental aircraft, but for a Cessna or Piper, switching from carb to FI will be tricky or impossible from a legal standpoint, at least at this time. You will need some approved STC and approved FI system to convert. Its a moot point for factory planes, you have to dance with the one you got. Switching from Carb to FI on a Cessna, even if it's an option in the future, will be expensive. AFP FI and Ellison TB's are out of course, they are experimental. As was said above parts are available at this time. May be stock up on some spares. However crabs rarely need parts or maintence between overhauls.
It's too soon for existing carb drivers to panic. There are existing stocks of parts out there, plus PMA approved Carb parts from Kelly aerospace. BTW, The hot start issue is no reason to avoid FI. If you use the right technique you can overcome that. Some FI systems have a purge valve which runs the hot gas and vapor out before start.
For RV's
I'm a carb guy all the way, but FI is "better" and in production with three manufactures: Precision, AFP and ECI, a fourth if you include Aerosance's FADEC. I'd stick to the first two, Precision or AFP. ECI's FI is not cheap and its a RPM based system verses a mass airflow FI system. FADEC is a whole different animal and expensive. Frankly I would probably go with AFP now, verses Precision. Who knows when Precision will fold the FI line. I heard Precision was paying over 5 million for insurance on a 4 million dollar Carb product line business. Math is not hard. No way to make money.
On the other hand AFP is a little company, which probably does not have liability insurance. One lawsuit, it might be over for them. May be we should buy from Precision to keep them in business? AFP is only for experimental aircraft and does not have the legacy liability of many 1000's of GA planes flying with their product like Precision does.
I hate to say it, no panic or fear, it looks like if you have a choice today, go FI.
Carb prices where much cheaper than FI, but over the last few years the price of Carbs became on par with FI (to pay for the lawsuits and insurance). FI was always more expensive, but now the price difference is not great. It may be moot if you can't get a new Carb or even a rebuild outright in the near future. Rebuilds outright are available now, from Kellly. Who knows for how long. Precision may still have some reserve stock in the pipeline.
Carb parts will be available for a while. My feeling is support will be around for some time. Someone might buy the rights to make PMA (parts manufacturing authority) of Carb parts, besides Kelly Aerospace.
With gas prices high, FI can save a few percent in fuel burn, especially if you balance injectors and lean judiciously. If you don't throttle back and move the red knob, it does not matter what you have, you'll burn more fuel.
Ellison Throttle Body - They have been around for awhile. They are experimental only, so they don't have the same "liability overhead" as Precision. Over the years Ellison TB's have proved to have a few idiosyncrasy's. The biggest issue I recall are the fine holes in the spray bar. Fuel filtering is critical. Also its more sensitive to air flow into the throat of the TB, verses a carb Venturi or FI TB. On the plus side the Ellison is more ice proof than a carb; however carb ice in a RV is not as a big issue as some airplanes, unless you decide to do long low power descents in pro carb ice conditions, high humidity, temps from 30F to 90F. RV carb ice can happen, just that its not super prone to it, like some Carb'ed Continentals in C182's.
Existing Carb Users
Precision pulled out of the market because of their inability to get product liability insurance. I think it was also a business choice and a Big-Foo-U to aviation and the legal world. After their lawsuit losses, they just said screw it. I wounder if they will stay in business at all. I feel sorry for the employees since many no doubt have been laid off.
It seems like the cards are stacked against Carbs. If you are starting from scratch or buying a NEW engine, FI sure looks like the obvious choice to me, even as a Carb fan.
If you bought a running engine or have a Carb now, go for it and use it. There will be parts for sometime to come (I hope). You might want to buy some spare parts today?
I don't think Kelly Aerospace makes the carb bodies? So its likely totally new assemblies will be extinct soon, but maintaining existing ones will continue for a while. I'm sure rebuilds will be available for some time. I hope Kelly does not get out of the business. As long as they can insulate them self from the legacy liability of Marvel Schibler / Precision, you would think as the only game in town they would stay in the Carb part business. They look like they will be the only provider of Carb parts when the Precision parts dry up. At this time Kelly sells total "out-right" rebuilds, w/ no exchange. They are available at this time. I'm sure they are checking them twice and making sure they are safe.
If you don't own a carb now and want a carb, better get with Spruce or Aviall soon and buy one while you can.
Who knows what the future will hold. Precision, in their good bye letter, said Carbs have been around for a long time and shown to be very reliable. That is true, but accidents happen and people (and lawyers) today want to make it all right with lawsuits, even if the plaintiff is in part or whole to blame for their fate. Yea the carb failed but no one made the plane stall but the pilot. Sure there is cause and effect, but lawsuits have become a pseudo WINNING LOTTO. If you can't win the Lotto, may be you can sue your way to riches.
Engine choice give current Carb dilemma
Linear Mode
