Vertical Power , VP-100

[N787R]

What do you think of VP-100 ?
I know about single point of failure, but I also like the simplicity it can provide.

Regards

Ben

[LettersFromFlyoverCountry]

I don't know enough of the VP-100 and I'm still trying to get a complete handle on the VP-200, but I'm leaning toward installing a VP unit in my plane.

I understand the concern about the single point of failure, although I think there's a claim to be made that there's lots of single points of failure. But I believe depending on how much cash you've got, you can install systems with redundancies on redundancies.

I'm not an IFR flyer, so single points of failures are easily solvable; I just fly the wing.

When you think about, the idea of solid state in airplanes is long overdue. In fact it seems to be the last place for solid state technology to arrive.

To me, it just makes too much sense to ignore in favor of circuit breakers and fuses. And I can have it handle wig wag and flap sensing etc. It can automatically begin shedding load in the event of an alternator failure etc.

Someone at the RV BBQ, though, brought up an interesting point and I haven't had a chance to think about it that much yet.

The unit "knows" what phase of the flight you're in based on a number of things, I guess, including movement.

How does it know that if I were to do some light aerobatics and, say, I pulled power and was in some strange position. How does it know I'm not in the landing phase or -- worse -- shut down phase?

[Guy Prevost]

Originally Posted by N787R

What do you think of VP-100 ?
I know about single point of failure, but I also like the simplicity it can provide.

Regards

Ben

I live in Albuquerque and have had several opportunities to talk with Marc as well as some engineering students that did some work for him.

For the most part, I think it's more valid to look at the Vertical Power systems as a collection of systems in a single box. There actually aren't that many single points of failure than in a traditional system. If you like it and can afford it I think it's a great product.

I'm in no way associated with VP and am not actually a customer. The thoughts above are just my impression of the system as a builder, pilot, and engineer.

G

[N787R]

So to simplify the wiring I guess I could spend $400 for EXBUS or $3,000 for vp-100. What do I get for the extra money I spend?

Ben

[LettersFromFlyoverCountry]

Marc just posted a spreadsheet to calculate the stuff you wouldn't need to buy.

Also, some months ago I wrote an article and did a podcast with Marc. You can find it here.

I haven't yet found anyone on any board who's installing the VP. I did a search here last week and the only post was from the guy building the Lancair (I think) who is beta testing. Would love to hear those who are installing it, however.

the audio link is at the bototm of the article. Set aside some time, though, I think it's something like 45 minutes.

[ccrawford]

I'm leaning heavily towards using a VP100, but I'm a few months away from doing that yet. I expect to order one in a couple months.

[N787R]

Bob
Thanks for the info you provided. I am not interested at all in VP-200. I already am installing EFIS and have all the engine monitors that I need.
I also dont like the automation that is built into VP-200. That is not for me.


But I am interested in Panel and wiring simplification. That is where VP-100 came in picture. So compare to EXBUS, what does VP-100 offer that justifies the price?

Regards

Ben

[LettersFromFlyoverCountry]

Ben:
Suggest you post that on the Vertical Power bulletin board since it's monitored by Marc and others. It's unlikely you'll find the answer here; there just don't appear to be enough RV customers yet.

[MCA]

I'll try to answer your questions here. Some other options: 1) post on the forums on the Vertical Power webs site, 2) call us and we can drill down on the phone in detail, that sort of thing is easier than trying to post, 3) find me at the LOE 07 fly-in next weekend.

Originally Posted by N787R

I also don't like the automation that is built into VP-200. That is not for me.

But I am interested in Panel and wiring simplification.

Ben - fair enough. Because it is a digital system (microprocessor driven) you can configure it however you want. You can have a long row of switches and just turn everything off and on manually if you want. You'll still get the other benefits but operate it conventionally. Or something in between full manual and full auto. Play with and change the config till you arrive at something you like.

Here are some of the key design points about the automation:
- you configure how you want it to work, so it matches your flying style not the other way around
- it always shows or tells you what it is doing
- you can override the automation at any time using several different methods
- you can change it at any time if you don't like it
- you can disable the automation for most functions if you so choose

The -100 of course is all manual switches.

Originally Posted by N787R

What do you think of VP-100 ?
I know about single point of failure, but I also like the simplicity it can provide.

The VP-100 is running about 6 months behind the VP-200, but they both use the same Control Unit (the red box that does all the switching and circuit protection, contactor management, OV protection, and trim & flaps). We don't have a VP-100 install manual out yet, but it is very similar to the -200.

If you look in the -200 installation manual (look under support->documentation on our web site), there several sections about how to wire backups. The system itself is designed with several layers of redundancy and fail over, and you can add to that with additional backups. For example, if you install an EFIS, you may consider adding extra gauges as backup. Same here. You can install extra switches to back up critical circuits. It's your decision how many backups you want to add. There's a fine balance between adding additional complexity and additional redundancy.

Originally Posted by Guy Prevost

For the most part, I think it's more valid to look at the Vertical Power systems as a collection of systems in a single box. There actually aren't that many single points of failure than in a traditional system.

G

Guy is correct. There are some failure modes that will bring down the system (just like in a traditional system), and there are others that will only affect a specific area. You can think about it like trading one type of failure for another. With a traditional system you may have a failed switch or relay, with the VP system, you may have a failed integrated circuit. Which do you think is more reliable? (actually they're both pretty reliable from a practical perspective)

Originally Posted by N787R

So to simplify the wiring I guess I could spend $400 for EXBUS or $3,000 for vp-100. What do I get for the extra money I spend?

Actually, the big secret is that we're taking the EXP bus and putting it in a fancy red box, then charging 10x for it. Just kidding.

Very different technologies and capabilities. Sort of like the difference between a Dynon and a Chelton. Both good products but serve different needs.

The most obvious difference is that the VP system is all digital, and can be fully configured and changed to match the needs of each builder. And, you change almost anything later on down the road if you need to. There a feature list on our web site that hopefully will help you with some additional details. http://www.verticalpower.com/features.html

Originally Posted by Bob Collins

I haven't yet found anyone on any board who's installing the VP.

I need to ping our beta customers to start making posts. And, our first batch of production units shipped this week so it'll be a while before you start seeing anything I suppose.

Bob - go down the street and see Stein. He'll have a system for an RV-10 in a few days.

[LettersFromFlyoverCountry]

Aha! I found a site today where a VP 200 is being installed. It's Richard Horan's very fine Dignity RV site in the UK

http://www.rvproject.co.uk/Firewall_...attery_box.htm