Safety strap

[frankh]

Ok I'll admit to the fact I'm becoming a little addicted to doing -ve G stuff...nothing brutal but I have seen -1.5G so far and expect to see -ve 2G when I do the inverted spin.

Anyway...I took a close look at the belts...I have the standard Vans 5 point harness and am very careful to make sure no piece of clothing can lift the handle.

In looking closer at the mechanism there is very little in the way of positive engagement that prevents the belt letting go.

I know there isn't that much force (300lbs or so) but even so its definatly a single point of failure which would almost certainly lead to total loss of control if it let go while upside down.

Anyone have any thoughts about adding a backup lap belt or someway of hardening this seemingly weak spot?

Thanks

Frank

[N908RV]

Frank,

If you want to just go the economy route for extra insurance, one suggestion would be to find an older style military lap belt and use that for a second lap belt. I believe Wag Aero used to carry those.

If you are getting into serious acro and are flying negative especially then you probably want better harnesses than Vans. Hookers are the best and they are about $200 to $250 for a full set custom made for your RV and your specs.

I know why you are asking, I never did like doing acro in planes with snap latches like on an airliner. It's OK for positive stuff, but I feel a lot better with a nice positive latch like a Hooker has.

[osxuser]

Aircraft spruce carries the military style, which I have become a big fan of, dead simple and pretty foolproof.

[gmcjetpilot]

Originally Posted by frankh

Ok I'll admit to the fact I'm becoming a little addicted to doing -ve G stuff...nothing brutal but I have seen -1.5G so far and expect to see -ve 2G when I do the inverted spin.

Anyway...I took a close look at the belts...I have the standard Vans 5 point harness and am very careful to make sure no piece of clothing can lift the handle.

In looking closer at the mechanism there is very little in the way of positive engagement that prevents the belt letting go.

I know there isn't that much force (300lbs or so) but even so its definitely a single point of failure which would almost certainly lead to total loss of control if it let go while upside down.

Anyone have any thoughts about adding a backup lap belt or someway of hardening this seemingly weak spot?

Thanks

Frank

Frank let me be blunt you can die if you seat belt comes undone inverted. Van lost a friend who was doing acro and the belt came loose. Acro guys do use a secondary lap belt. I am OK with one belt for non top gun airshow maneuvers or sustained inverted, but I like the military latch style latch over buckle (not airliner passenger pull-up seat buckle). To release the mil latch you need to pull it out of a strong detent and rotate it 90 degrees or more. Also under load it will have more resistance to being unlatched inadvertently. They make velcro latch cover to keep it from being caught and unhooked, adding more protection. Other wise a second lap belt is the way to go.

http://www.pia.com/silver/acrobeltPrice.htm


You can sell you existing belts and get some serious acro belts. Racing belts now are pretty top quality and use the mil hardware. The down side is many use 3" web but some manufactures do 2" as well. I personally like the rotary latch which is pretty secure. It does not have the visibility like the latch over buckle but they use them on the Boeing so it must be good.

[AlexPeterson]

I have the Hooker 5 point, and when I'm going to do negative g stuff, I slide a properly sized wire tie over the latch handle and around the belt web. This will prevent a sleeve or headset wire or whatever from pulling the latch out. It has never happened during regular flight, but it would tend to put a damper on the day if it were to happen. I slide the wire tie back off the latch for takeoff/landing. The latch is like the top picture in the previous post by George.

[Vern]

For safety and comfort in serious acro, a second lap belt is important. Hooker also sells a ratcheting seat belt I've used in unlimited machines that increases your comfort significantly. The tighter you are in the seat, the more comfort in negative manuevers. Even in a dual belted open cockpit Pitts, I've felt like I was peering over the top wing in outside loops.

I do not like the Vans belts because they are so easy to get a 'false' lock. Pax think they are latched when they are not. They are also of minimal strength materials.

Consider also that in an accident,the belts and harnesses are what separate your bod from that panel. Yes,heavier belts and harnesses are not as comfy but if you crash-landed, you would be so grateful for them! Save money somewhere else!

On another note, my aviation hero was world acro champ Bevo Howard (google him). Bevo used to fly a Bucker Jungmeister that was brought to the USA in the 30's by a prince on the dirgible Hindenberg. Bevo's long term desire was to eventually donate his plane to the Smithsonian. However, in a freak accident which was probably survivable, Bevo was killed when his old original harnesses failed. He had been encouraged repeatedly to get better harnesses.

A former hangermate Frank Eldridge suffered an RV-6A accident here at Falcon Field (see my writeup and links in Forums-'RV Friends Who Have Passed On'). Frank was thrown into the baggage compartment. He became a great proponent of buying and installing the very best belts and harnesses you could afford.

Also consider the high density seat foam for safety as well as comfort.

The FAA Regional Flight surgeon once gave me some advice. He said the two top killers of GA pilots were head injuries from bashing foreheads on panels, and burst bladders and organs from crash impacts. He said if you would only pee before each flight that would help some. Been glad to comply ever since!

[frankh]

For all your considered responses.

Seems there are a number of us that are concerned about this issue.

i will either upgrade my harnesses (might have two almost new Vans 5 points for sale) or add a second belt.

Frank

[frankh]

http://wescoperformance.stores.yahoo...cingbelts.html

Prices seem significantly cheap compared to others and the hardware looks to be the same as on the Hooker website.

I am tthinking of ordering two lapbelts.

I assume the lapbelt goes over the top of the existing belt...Does this fit comfortably with the existing Vans harness does anyone know?

Thanks

Frank

[cytoxin]

Originally Posted by gmcjetpilot

http://www.pia.com/silver/acrobeltPrice.htm

these military style belts cost me 600$ and some change.

[Bob Brown]

Frank, you might also check out Summit Racing. They have a number of belt systems...