What's new
Van's Air Force

Don't miss anything! Register now for full access to the definitive RV support community.

Boost pump install options

Desert Rat

Well Known Member
Hey All,

I'm at the point where they systems are starting to come together and I've elected to go with the EFII fuel boost pump.

The plumbing for this is much simpler than the Vans unit, and looking at the system requirements, I can configure this in several different ways.

-Filter on top of pump with doghouse cover similar to vans configuration?

-filter & pump in a line down low on the tunnel (allows for maybe cupholders on top but raises the tunnel maybe 2" and extends further fwd?

Filter in each wing root, allowing for a nice small installation in the tunnel area?

For those who have gone this route, I'd love to see pictures and opinions on how your choice worked out, especially the filter in the wing root solution. I like the idea of one clogged filter not taking out the whole fuel system plus not having to pull the filter out of the cabin at annual, and I know it's been done, but it seems like there isn't much room in the wing root. Where exactly did you put them and how much hassle is it to access them there?
 
Terry,

I have the EFII boost pump and I managed to get it all under the doghouse with a post filter. I didn't want to have to extend the cover forward. It did take a little work to get it all to fit. I also have wing root pre-filters. It isn't to the operational stage yet though.
 

Attachments

  • fuel_pump_and_lines.jpg
    fuel_pump_and_lines.jpg
    376.4 KB · Views: 512
  • right_fuel_filter_1.jpg
    right_fuel_filter_1.jpg
    260.1 KB · Views: 479
  • fuel_pump_mounting.jpg
    fuel_pump_mounting.jpg
    165.7 KB · Views: 399
I'm a fan of pair of filters so that you have the ability to switch over to the other should one ever become plugged for some reason. I have Andair gascolators/filters mounted in each wing root. It also reduces the chance of filling the cockpit with fumes if you spill anything when changing, although that said, a leak inside the wing root is quickly smelt in the cockpit anyway, so not a big win there.

If you can save the space on top of the pump location, that is a good thing, as you will be looking for somewhere to mount your fire-extinguisher (I have mine on top of the Andair filter cover I built).

The other thing to watch is the heat inside the enclosed filter/pump housing at floor level. I have 1/16" fiberfrax insulation and a titanium belly skin to try and limit heat from the exhaust. You want to keep your fuel as cool as possible, especially if you plan on running mogas, to limit the chances of vapor lock.

Tom
RV-7
 
I'm a fan of pair of filters so that you have the ability to switch over to the other should one ever become plugged for some reason. I have Andair gascolators/filters mounted in each wing root. It also reduces the chance of filling the cockpit with fumes if you spill anything when changing, although that said, a leak inside the wing root is quickly smelt in the cockpit anyway, so not a big win there.

If you can save the space on top of the pump location, that is a good thing, as you will be looking for somewhere to mount your fire-extinguisher (I have mine on top of the Andair filter cover I built).

The other thing to watch is the heat inside the enclosed filter/pump housing at floor level. I have 1/16" fiberfrax insulation and a titanium belly skin to try and limit heat from the exhaust. You want to keep your fuel as cool as possible, especially if you plan on running mogas, to limit the chances of vapor lock.

Tom
RV-7

I really like the ideal of the Andair gascolators/filters in the wing root. Any chance you could post a pic of your install?
 
I'd sure like to see pix of the way you guys installed filters or gascolators in the wing root.

I've heard of people doing this, and would definitely go this route for all the reasons you mentioned, but it doesn't seem like there's much room to spare in the wing root. Especially if you have the fuel outlet from the tank coming through the aft location (which I do) vs. the flop tube location.
 
Last edited:
I really like the ideal of the Andair gascolators/filters in the wing root. Any chance you could post a pic of your install?

No FI here but even the Facet boost pumps for carb installations require a 74 micron filter on the inlet. I installed AN6 in-line filters from Summit Racing in the wing roots of both my 7 and 4. I also didn't like the idea of having to disassemble to clean the filters in the cabin. It is tight but doable. The 4 is much tighter than the 7 at the root so I used SS flex line to allow some movement for removal. In the 7 I was able to use hard line and it is no problem removing for cleaning. As long as your caps are sealing and you tape up the vent very little fuel will leak when you remove the filter so no need to have the tanks MT. Will see if I have any photos.
 
I'm by no means the first person to do this, so I can't take credit for any of it. It's really common in Canada where they have to install gascolators.

Here are a couple of pics I found, some during my build, and others elsewhere off the internet back when I was planning things. I had Tom from TS Flightlines make up the flex lines for me. The main thing to watch is making sure you have things positioned perfectly in a vertical sense so that the drain point is right where it needs to be with regard to your wing root fairing.
Removing the filter isn't too bad, but it does mean you have to take the wing root fairing off (which you need to do at annuals anyway). Access is ok, but not super easy putting the lockwire on after you've re-installed the filter bowl. Make sure you get a few spare o-rings for the fuel bowl incase you screw any up. Nothing worse than having your aircraft down for a single o-ring. The biggest downside is that if you have a leaking drain on the gascolator, you will smell it in the cockpit. I had some small paper towel fibers (that evidently were from my fuel tank build) get trapped in my fuel drain valve attached to the bottom of the bowl and provide a super slow leak path. You know about it, because the moment you open the canopy after a week of inaction, it smells of fuel. The drips at the bottom of the drain seem to get sucked back up into the hole you put in the wing root fairing once you start the aircraft. I've flushed the tanks a few more times, and they all now seem to have gone. Is it the ultimate solution? No, probably not, but when I weight up the pro's and cons of all the other options, it'd likely do it again.
Tom.
 

Attachments

  • andair wingroot gascolator.JPG
    andair wingroot gascolator.JPG
    153.1 KB · Views: 458
  • wing root gascolator dimensions.JPG
    wing root gascolator dimensions.JPG
    155 KB · Views: 417
  • wing root gascolator hose shape.JPG
    wing root gascolator hose shape.JPG
    68.1 KB · Views: 406
Al's ideal sounds like a pretty neat solution also. Do you really need another drain point at the bottom of the gascolator? Probably not. This isn't your average Cessna with 13 drain points at locations selected by the legal team. The only thing to maybe watch is making sure you've got a filter with a large surface area and low resistance, especially of you are planning on running mogas, which has a higher vapor pressure than leaded fuels (i.e. boils more easily when sucked by the mechanical fuel pump on the back of the engine, especially on hot and high days). Andair's gascolator filters have a relatively large surface area, so their resistance is low (see specs below):
http://www.andair.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2014/02/gascolators_gas01.pdf

Additionally, here's an old thread on the wing root gascolator install:
https://vansairforce.net/community/showthread.php?t=138593

Tom.
 
No FI here but even the Facet boost pumps for carb installations require a 74 micron filter on the inlet. I installed AN6 in-line filters from Summit Racing in the wing roots of both my 7 and 4. I also didn't like the idea of having to disassemble to clean the filters in the cabin. It is tight but doable. The 4 is much tighter than the 7 at the root so I used SS flex line to allow some movement for removal. In the 7 I was able to use hard line and it is no problem removing for cleaning. As long as your caps are sealing and you tape up the vent very little fuel will leak when you remove the filter so no need to have the tanks MT. Will see if I have any photos.

That's a good point. I just changed to FI so am using the AFP 40 Micron filter. The Andair Gascolator is rated at 70 microns. Would be nice if they were available with a 40 micron filter.
 
Have u looked at the customer pictures in the EFII website?
This is my photo that is in Roberts website. Very low profile. Filters in wing roots. Similar to pix above. No gascolators.
 
Have u looked at the customer pictures in the EFII website?
This is my photo that is in Roberts website. Very low profile. Filters in wing roots. Similar to pix above. No gascolators.

I did look at the website and saw this picture. Very clean installation! What sort of filters are you running in the wing roots?
 
Here is how I mounted my FlyEFII boost pump with an Aerolab Gascolator. Needs a custom doghouse cover but that is easy enough to do

IMG_8914.JPG


IMG_9052.JPG


IMG_9123.JPG


https://garetsrv.blogspot.com/2021/06/began-installing-fuel-pump-35-hours.html

https://garetsrv.blogspot.com/2021/06/modifying-center-tunnel-for-fuel-pump-6.html
 
Last edited:
Our universal version without the shutoff valve. The 90* bulkhead fitting is in the side skin hole, then a swivel coupler, the filter then a 180* bent tube/hose assembly that routes to the tank. Filter is backwards in this picture--it was for mockup.
Similar ideas for the RV8, RV10, and RV14. Components may change due to configuration of the fuselage/tank fittings. The RV10 and 14 have fuel shutoff valves for servicing, can do a similar package for the RV7/9's and the 8's.

Tom
 

Attachments

  • wing root filter kit.jpg
    wing root filter kit.jpg
    755.2 KB · Views: 164
Holy cow Tom, that's perfect! Is that a reusable filter element? How many microns/flow rate and what do you charge per unit?
 
Ordering

Our universal version without the shutoff valve. The 90* bulkhead fitting is in the side skin hole, then a swivel coupler, the filter then a 180* bent tube/hose assembly that routes to the tank. Filter is backwards in this picture--it was for mockup.
Similar ideas for the RV8, RV10, and RV14. Components may change due to configuration of the fuselage/tank fittings. The RV10 and 14 have fuel shutoff valves for servicing, can do a similar package for the RV7/9's and the 8's.

Tom

How do we find this on the web site, I tried, maybe I’m just blind.
 
40 Micron stainless screen, yes serviceable. LOL---not on my TS FLightlines website--which quite honestly is obsolete. Long story. But most of the new products are on our combined site asflightlines.com. It piggy backs off the aircraft specialty site.
We'll have the RV14 version at our booth at OSH 948. Easily adaptable to most anything in the wing root.
Cost without the shutoff valves---as pictured is $399.95.
Tom
 
FWIW, here's my Weldon mounted behind the rudder pedals.
No 'Dog House' to deal with.
 

Attachments

  • fuel pump.jpg
    fuel pump.jpg
    150.5 KB · Views: 208
Last edited:
FWIW, here's my Weldon mounted behind the rudder pedals.


Walt- It's a shame you weren't here with this great advice when I was deciding which pump to buy...

...Oh wait, you were, and I was like "$1,200 for a fuel pump! Forget that!
I'll go with a more complicated but cheaper option, it's not like its a ton of extra time and effort or anything."
 
Terry, the install for the AFP, EFII or the SDS pump isnt hard, or complicated. You can install them anywhere you want. But, you have to do your own engineering and fabrication work if you move it to a 'different' location. It all depends on the amount of work you want to do.

In Garets case, he wanted to use the Aerolabs gascolator, located in the tunnel under the selector valve. That in itself added to the complications. One of which was the installed height differences in the pump and gascolator. He wasnt concerned about having to make a new pump cover. Below are the mockup pics we did. YES, crude, but we had to mimic the installed height of the gascolator. We set that height first, then raised the spar mockup with the selector valve the appropriate height to mimic the final installed height. Garet was going to add a height extension to raise the pump---since he was making a new cover it didnt matter.

Then all it took was making the rigid tubes. Hose was out of the question because of the tight bends and confines of the enclosed area. MANY different tubes were fabricated to see what would solve the problem. This is what we came up with, working under the criteria that Garet gave us. Im sure there are other possibilities, but everything was a compromise.

Tom
 

Attachments

  • discharge tube side view.jpg
    discharge tube side view.jpg
    454.4 KB · Views: 169
  • gascolator discharge tube.jpg
    gascolator discharge tube.jpg
    548.8 KB · Views: 182
  • gascolator, EFii pump.jpg
    gascolator, EFii pump.jpg
    604.6 KB · Views: 173
  • gascolotor supply.jpg
    gascolotor supply.jpg
    558.8 KB · Views: 168
  • pump end view.jpg
    pump end view.jpg
    544.2 KB · Views: 148
Thanks Tom- I love the idea if filters in each wing root, but I have to confess that with payment for an engine and avionics looming, I'm pinching my pennies and will have to think about it for a while before dropping and extra $800 to get there.
 
Walt- It's a shame you weren't here with this great advice when I was deciding which pump to buy...

...Oh wait, you were, and I was like "$1,200 for a fuel pump! Forget that!
I'll go with a more complicated but cheaper option, it's not like its a ton of extra time and effort or anything."

Yea but I saved some money by not putting brakes on the RH side :cool:
 
Weldon part#

Does anyone have a part number for a Weldon pump. Application IO-360 parallel valve. I see the 8120-J Is specified for Minimum Capacity “45 GPH @ 20 PSIG @ 14 VDC” & Full Relief Pressure (No Flow) “40 PSIG MAX @14 VDC“ Appears to be a good fit for our Lycoming. Thank you.
 
Does anyone have a part number for a Weldon pump. Application IO-360 parallel valve. I see the 8120-J Is specified for Minimum Capacity “45 GPH @ 20 PSIG @ 14 VDC” & Full Relief Pressure (No Flow) “40 PSIG MAX @14 VDC“ Appears to be a good fit for our Lycoming. Thank you.


Here you go:

A8163-A

35GPH, 21 PSI, 14V, 5A

I see Spruce has them and they are using the Suffix Bravo now.
 
Here you go:

A8163-A

35GPH, 21 PSI, 14V, 5A

I see Spruce has them and they are using the Suffix Bravo now.

I have that pump, just replaced it with a re-built from QAA (little leaking) for $800. Mine is firewall-mounted, which I appreciate. Changing it out was simple, whereas (for me) getting around on the floor and under the panel of an RV is not.
 
I have that pump, just replaced it with a re-built from QAA (little leaking) for $800. Mine is firewall-mounted, which I appreciate. Changing it out was simple, whereas (for me) getting around on the floor and under the panel of an RV is not.

FWF mounting is convenient, but now the pump is exposed to the high under cowl temps which means boiling fuel.
 
FWF mounting is convenient, but now the pump is exposed to the high under cowl temps which means boiling fuel.

That sounds bad at first blush...

...but isn't the gascolator located on the firewall? What about the engine-driven fuel pump attached to the <gasp> hot engine? And the carburetor or fuel servo? The fuel distribution spider?
 
That sounds bad at first blush...

...but isn't the gascolator located on the firewall? What about the engine-driven fuel pump attached to the <gasp> hot engine? And the carburetor or fuel servo? The fuel distribution spider?

Exactly, that's why you REALLY want the boost pump in the cool zone to be able to pressurize the system to avoid vapor lock. If fuel is boiling in your backup pump you may not be able to get fuel past it to those other components that are even hotter.

Personally that's why I run the AFP purge valve on my FM150 even though it's technically not needed, I'm able circulate cool fuel through the entire system before I even start which totally eliminates vapor lock issues and improves hot starts.

Every GA airplane I can think of, including Van's, has the boost pump located in the "cool zone".

This is where a deviation from the plans can have dire consequences.
 
Last edited:
Back
Top