!!SELLOUT!!AOPA offers Congress a plan to combat medical certificate fraud!!SELLOUT!!

[N62XS]

What the alphabets should be doing is paying their [ed. word here removed by dr (rules)] lobbyist and [ed. word here removed by dr (rules)] to convince the Democrooks and Republiconvicts to allow us honest pilots to use a state driver's license to serve as a Class III medical.

Why will this not happen anytime soon? Money, power and control!

It would result in the following:

1. Loss of government jobs in Oklahoma City and Washington, DC(Smaller government is a regular campaign lie, isn't it?)

2. Loss of income for AME doctors(Making flying less expensive for the little guy?)

3. Reduction in FAA/Government control in our hobby and our lives(Boyer said in the article Doug posted that "only 0.25 percent of all general aviation accidents were caused by medical incapacitation, and only nine accidents in nine years were caused by the incapacitation of a pilot flying with a fraudulent medical certificate." That is an average of one a year during the past decade, proving that Class III self certification is not a threat to public safety!

Frankly, if you falsify your medical, it will void your insurance coverage in the case of a damage claim and you would either be stupid to buy the insurance or stupid to get a Class III medical certificate, or both! Waste of money on both fronts. I would speculate that a pilot without a license and medical would face less legal action than a pilot with a license trying to "forget" a case of kidney stones or hypertension or viagra. If the alphabets are unwilling to fight for this type of common sense benefit for pilots, maybe they will fight to for more money for AME doctors by allowing them wide ranging latitude to BE A DOCTOR and perform all but the most serious evaluations/approvals in the field.

AOPA should partner with us on this issue, NOT WITH CONGRESS! I am sure Phil Boyer is a good person, but so was EVE before she met satan! Phil, if you lay down with dirty dogs you WILL GET FLEAS(Sorry RD, but he does not have fleas)! REMEMBER who pays the money for your salary. IT IS NOT CONGRESS OR THE FAA!

For the record, if it ever affects me, I will fly my Ercoupe 415C/D under LSA and fly the RV-10 and RV-8 with my pilot wife or pilot son as PIC. More than one way to stay legal even in the face of alphabets apathetic activity or goverment business as usual.

FWIW. Good night.

[grover]

similar to NRA and their position on "working with" ATF. when you mix clean water with dirty water, what do you get? dirty water. it will come to a point when pilots will simply elect to disregard medicals and maybe even licenses and take their chances with getting caught. just a matter of when that threshold will be reached, it seems.

[aelkins]

Although I'm not quite as politically passionate as you, I do fully agree that a Class III medical license should be replaced with a valid drivers license. (mirrored by the LSA stipulations)
My thought process is as follows.. Past history of accidents caused by medical defieciencies are virtually unheard of. Also, there are certainly several cases of getting waivers of borderline deficiencies. But, the strongest point is that the public safety is effectively the same whether the pilot is PP or LSA rated. (as far as accident related to medical deficiency)

The bottom line really appears to be revenue.
(moreso for FAA jobs/control than AMEs, as the AMEs will still have the Class I & II business... And honestly, my AME doesn't make that much $$$ on my bi-annual.)
Just my opinion..
I'd welcome the opinion of a AME on the Class III medical debate.
They may shed some additional light that we may be missing...
Good day...

[fstringham7a]

Robby and all you other clear thinking souls.

Good friend just received is 3rd class medical. About two months after being considered a very healthy 45 year old he said to his wife, why don't don't we take the RV4 up for a fun ride today. Fate intervened. He was called to work.Lucky or not for his wife after he got to work and was showing a model home to prospective client he died of a massive heart attack.

What did I learn from this; 3rd class medicals will not stop all potential medical problems associated to flying our planes. ( I know the gov FAA would say the low rate of accidents caused by medical probems is low because of the wonderfully well conceived medical monitoring program................ya right). Bad stuff happens sometimes in very tenuious situations.

My solution is: 3rd class medical traded in for divers lic. To satisfy myself of my ability as well as the physical/mental accuity to continue to fly with advancing age not to mention the knowledge that others are like wise fit I would suggest annual flight reviews mandated by the insurance folks and not the gov.

Finally I know a few of my flying friends are flying naked. They are never going to get a medical. I believe that no matter the system there will always be the rebel that will give the man the single digit salute!!!!!

I have really grown to dislike/distrust/ the gov and their menuions (FAA)

Lets begin the fight for what is right. Yes that includes getting our own brothers of the alphbet soup (EAA, AOPA) to go to bat for us!!!!!!!!!!

Frank @ SGU RV7A

[LettersFromFlyoverCountry]

There are some people who shouldn't be flying. Or --at the very least -- if they're collecting Social Security *disability* payments for a disqualifying condition, maybe they should be given a choice -- give up the money, or give up the flying. Eveyrone hates the "man." But they still cash the checks.

Fraud is fraud, and that's what Oberstar -- and there's no better friend to aviation in Congress than Jim Oberstar -- was focusing on when he released the report a few weeks ago.

I pay a lot of money in taxes and I'm happy to have some of the services the government provides (especially the airports in Rep. Oberstar's district (g)).

I see no reason why we should look the other way when someone is ripping off our money just because he has a pilot's certificate in his wallet.

Substitute "poor person" in the I.G. report for "pilot," and I bet we have a whole different discussion.

[fstringham7a]

Originally Posted by Bob Collins

There are some people who shouldn't be flying. Or --at the very least -- if they're collecting Social Security *disability* payments for a disqualifying condition, maybe they should be given a choice -- give up the money, or give up the flying.

Fraud is fraud.

Bob I totally agree but there are a few that are going to go against any policy that is an attempt to protect them from themselfs. The scary things is they are in the air as we speak putting others in jeaporady. In other words there will always be those few that put the group in danger. No rule is going to stop them!!!! This fact does not change my notion of my reality that the gov...FAA...spends far to much time, money, and effort stopping many flyable healthy, prudent, law abiding individuals from enjoying this wonderful thing we call aviation. So I go back to my thought which is trade the 3rd class for Drivers Lic and insurance mandated annual flight reviews.

Frank @ SGU RV7A "NDY"

[LettersFromFlyoverCountry]

Perhaps no rule is going to stop them, but one of Boyer's ideas is to have better data sharing across agencies. So if I guy is collecting disability benefits,that cross check is going to reveal that he's flying.

So one of two things is happening there (1) He's lying to get the disability benefits or (2) he's lying to keep flying.

If he kills himself while flying, then when he goes down in flames his insurance company doesn't pay and he opens his estate up to significant damage.

If he's lying to get the government benefits, then he risks going to jail or saddling his estate with a huge lien.

Either way, a guy with judgment THAT bad, isn't exactly proving to me he's capable of exhibiting the good judgment required to fly.

What I *would* like to see the FAA do is rewrite an archaic "disqualifying condition" structure. For example, the ban on anyone with bipolar disorder from flying harkens back to an age (and we're not talking long ago ) when anything classified as a "mental illness" was all grouped in one category. We know more know, and people understand that there are all flavors of bipolar disorder as there is with anything else labeled a "mental illness."

But there it is in black and white as a disqualifying condition: no "ifs" "ands" or "buts."

The net effect of this is pilots don't seek help when they have problems for fear that it will be diagnosed a disqualifying condition.

I have no problem with rules designed to keep hazards out of the sky. I have Meniere's Disease (vertigo). I grounded myself and told the FAA and now it's up to me to prove I'm capable of flying again. While I can have a driver's license and I could -- under some of the proposed scenarios -- fly with a driver's license, I've not met an advocate of this system yet who has said it's a good idea for me to fly with them in closed formation.

Yes, as I indicated, there are probably capable flyers caught up in the system. And, yes, the system should be made easier for those people to fly. The devil in the details, though, is it shouldn't be made easier for those who would commit fraud to obtain government benefits to fly, not should it be easier for people who shouldn't be flying, to fly.

I like your idea of annual insurance reviews. But I'm a renter, I don't deal with insurance companies.

I'm a VERY honest guy. I'm a very law-abiding guy. But I do admit it's tempting to lie on my FAA medical application every other year. I don't, but it's tempting. So I know lots of folks with less scrupples than me do it. And I guess that's up to them.

But the ones that get government checks for their "illnesses"? Perp walk.

[vmirv8bldr]

At face value, I like the idea of Driver's License and insurance mandated annual flight reviews, but I can't help but think of the unintended consequences.

For example, insurance mandated flight reviews would likely lead to.....physical examinations, ever increasing in frequency as our age increases. Why don't they do it now? Because the FAA handles that for them which also lowers premiums slightly, since they don't have to manage that part of the risk portfolio. I'm fine with the 3rd class physical every three years. Just like driving a car, senility prevents dangerous drivers from taking themselves off the road. They're not just a danger to themselves, but also to the family of six they crush when hitting the gas instead of the brake. (happens all too frequently.)

As for the Driver's Licenses, they're issued by the state. Each state is free to determine the examination frequency and issuance requirements, provided they meet federal minumums. Your PPL is issued by the federal government, hence the conflict. Nationalize the driver's license? No thanks. States handle that better than I believe the fed can.

But they're good enough for LSA right? Right. LSA's are also restricted in performance and gross weight to make them primarily leisure recreational vehicles and NOT transportation vehicles.

Based on those potential outcomes, I say keep it as is.

Punish the fraudsters. Fly safely.

[cytoxin]

you all mention how few accidents have occured...correct? hmmm then maybe it has worked, very well, infact almost perfectly. im sure many folks that have no buisiness flying would be flying. just like those that will fly LSA.
the risk maybe small but i think if this issue is pushed and to many comparrisons are made to driving a 7500lb suv on I 40 at 80 mph will eventually do more harm than good. what we will actually end up with is a medical for a drivers license. c'mon you know how these politicians heads work. it will be "hmmm, thanks Mr. peon, glad you pointed that out, now medicals for all the auto drivers as well." just like the comercial truck industry. IMHO people always underestimate their conditions. if you cant pass a third class medical, really, you dont need to fly.it is the threshold between bout to die and dead.
oh by the way i go for my medical tommorow i was really sick a while back and could very easily fail. i ride a bike 30 miles @20 mph 3 times a week. have normal BP and no meds for over 2 years.no limitations at all.but the history sounds concerning. when i go to any flyin i see people so out of shape it makes me wonder how they could get a medical.
if i lie its 250,000$ and up to 5 years. i wont lie at those costs but would just fly expired if i had to. and no, after building for 4 + years i dont have to fly.

in my state the license renews every ten years and when i was almost cripled, wearing a knee brace, ankle brace and cane i got the ten year ticket.

[keen9a]

Anyone wanna fill in the rest of us on what AOPA is supporting that we should be so angry about. Sure I'd like a driver's license medical, but I'm not a big fan of fraud either. So someone got a link to AOPA's position that we're talking about? Nothing wrong with venting a bit, but if you want to get people on your side of the issue I'm gonna need to know what the issue really is.