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What have I forgotten that goes in a panel?

rmartingt

Well Known Member
So my panel layout is finally coming together and I'm looking to get it laser-cut soon so I can start wiring in switches etc. Avionics will be dummy boxes for now so I can do the wiring. But I'm trying to think if I've forgotten anything. What I have provisions for now:

Equipment on the panel:
Dynon 10" display (probably HDX)
AP button and knob panels
Com radio and intercom
IFR GPS
SDS ECU programmer
Blank space for standby attitude (D3?) or cellphone mount
2 dual USB ports for data cards
Alternator warning lights (2)
ELT remote


Switches and controls
Engine bus power (2)
Fuel pumps (2)
Ignitions (2)
ECU select
Starter
Main bus bat/alt
Aux bus bat/alt
Bus tie
Main and aux Alt CBs
Nav
Strobe
Land/recog
Taxi/flood
Pitot heat
Aux fuel transfer (L/R)
Trim power disconnect
AP servo power disconnect
RH stick disconnect
Interior lighting switches/dimmer knobs (4 ea... may not use them all, but I have space them)
Smoke arm
Throttle
Prop
SDS mixture knob


Equipment located elsewhere:
Fuse panels (behind panel)
Headphone jacks (on F-902 bulkheads)
USB/12V power ports (on F-902 bulkheads)
Seat heat switches (location TBD but not on panel)
Tablet mount (under throttle, mounted to pump cover)


On sticks:
Trim
PTT
Com flip/flop
Smoke
Flaps
AP disconnect


Items to add based on feedback:
Smoke on indicator light
Battery fault lights

Maybes:
Alt static source
Standalone slip indicator (ball)
Remote ident button


What am I missing? What have I forgotten?
 

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Not mounted, no cutout needed, but you might consider the Dynon WiFi adapter. It plugs into one of your USB ports and, among other things, will let you upload flight planning from your iPad to your Dynon EFIS, or change flight planning on both devices on-the-fly. It's (relatively) cheap at about $50.
 
Something lots of folks forget, but good if you plan to fly IFR: An alternate static switch. Mounts on the panel inline with your static line. Open if you lose your external static port for some reason (rain, ice, etc.). Stein has them for <$20. :cool:
 
Not sure about Dynon but maybe you want to add a TOGA switch. I didn't know about it so I don't have one yet.

Also I'm not sure I would put the cabin heat right next to the mixture control. That's just me though.

I have the Infiniti grips and my hands aren't really big enough to hit the pinky switch comfortably. I don't think I have that small of hand either, but you might check your reach to that switch. I may not use it or use it for something that is infrequently used.
 
1. Forgot to mention the wifi dongle... yep, planning on that (it’s one of the things that swayed my final decision vs. GRT)

2. Alt static... good idea, may retrofit... but that means running a dedicated line up there. Decisions, decisions... Also, I’m not (yet) IFR rated. That’s in the plans for after I’m flying...

3. I don’t think Dynon supports a TOGA button...

4. Mixture’s a small, guarded pot knob, not a pull/vernier, and eventually infrequently used once the ECU’s dialed in (electronic fuel injection). But cabin heat might move a bit as I fiddle with control placement.

5. I’ve had the opportunity to fly two different airplanes with Infinity grips but never thought to check the pinky button placement. It’s a good point; I’ll try to remember to check that if I get access to one of them in the next couple weeks.
 
Suggestions

1. Don't buy Dynon until after you have talked with Rob Hickman at AFS.
2. The knob panel may not be necessary. May be just a duplication of controls
that are on the EFIS (as with my AFS 5600)
3. I never like seeing toggle switches at the bottom of the panel. Too easy to
damage or accidentally activate getting in or out. Use rocker switches.
4. Consider the GRT Mini for standby attitude indicator.
5. Leave enough space for the Garmin 650 or Avidyne 440 GPS Navigator. If
you decide on the smaller Garmin (175/375) there will be very little wasted
space.
6. Eventual addition of second radio will require audio panel. Can be remote,
but needs to be considered.
7. Unless you have a rear view mirror, you need a visual or aural warning of
smoke on. Otherwise eventually you will find yourself wasting a lot of
smoke oil.
 
1. A big factor in choosing Dynon was that I have a fair bit of time behind a Skyview classic in my dad's -6. It's a familiar and (to me) intuitive interface compared to the AFS and Garmin setups I tried out at Oshkosh.

2. The AP controls are accessible through the screen but it's kinda clunky. The knob and AP buttons are worth it to me.

3. Too used to the toggles at this point (from Dad's airplane; never had that problem there) and locking rockers are like hen's teeth. Besides, all the toggle switches just showed up on my porch Monday... too late now.

4. I did, but it's just a smidge too big to fit. D3 can go on the glareshield too, if necessary.

5. Wish I had that kind of money.

6. If i get to that point I can cut a new panel and move a couple switches to make room in the center stack. That will be years down the road, if at all.

7. Hmm. There is space for that...
 
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Comments Feedback

Two comments:
1. I noticed you had "taxi / flood". The FlyLEDS have this feature whereas the flood feature turns the strobes on continuously at 33% power to provide more taxi light. I don't think this feature is legal in the United States. I think you need to have either a rotating beacon or strobes on when the engine is running. For this reason, I did not hook up my "flood" option on my FlyLEDS.
2. To the person who said use rocker switches instead of toggle switches, I would love to use rocker switches, but they wont fit my panel, only toggle switches. For rocker switches to fit below by EFIS displays, I would need to make a taller panel from scratch. (short by 1/10" !!!!)
 
Missing switches:

Chaff
Chem trails
Passenger Eject

Just a thought, when you layout switches for example, I assume you will group them somehow. I recommend leaving a full space between the groups so you can add a switch in the future to any of the groups without it looking out of place in spacing or location.

Bevan
 
I realize that you're from the flat lands, but if you plan on regularly going high, it might be worth putting an O2 system controller on the panel.

Dave
 
I realize that you're from the flat lands, but if you plan on regularly going high, it might be worth putting an O2 system controller on the panel.

Those have separate controllers? I figured you just hooked up a cannula and turned the regulator dial on the bottle (like the O2 bottles we carried on the fire truck). (note to self - research oxygen systems)

Missing switches:
Chaff
Ha!

I was thinking of marking the smoke arm switch "Chemtrail dispenser" or something though...

Just a thought, when you layout switches for example, I assume you will group them somehow. I recommend leaving a full space between the groups so you can add a switch in the future to any of the groups without it looking out of place in spacing or location.
They're pretty much grouped already, though my CAD model has nice even aligned spacing. I have them grouped in a way that makes sense to me--putting in what I need for the EFI but keeping some continuity with Dad's -6.

Two comments:
1. I noticed you had "taxi / flood". The FlyLEDS have this feature whereas the flood feature turns the strobes on continuously at 33% power to provide more taxi light. I don't think this feature is legal in the United States. I think you need to have either a rotating beacon or strobes on when the engine is running. For this reason, I did not hook up my "flood" option on my FlyLEDS.

I'm using a progressive switch, "normal" taxi in the middle. I want to keep the flood function though, in case I need a few seconds of it to check obstacle clearance or something in close quarters. Note that 91.209(b) also says "...However, the anticollision lights need not be lighted when the pilot-in-command determines that, because of operating conditions, it would be in the interest of safety to turn the lights off." They might be giving you the rope to hang yourself, but I'd argue "not running into things" is "in the interest of safety".

You might consider a CO detector. Also, what about a wig-wag switch?
CO detector could be standalone mounted somewhere convenient. Wigwag is built into the landing light switch (off-recog-on); saves space.
 
Funny rockers vs toggles . . . .

Having juggled something in the dark flying IFR and knocking off the master in a 182, I used a locking toggle for the power switches. A friend has done the same non his 10 with rockers. Just think about the number of people that have had that happen and what it looks like in the dark until rebooted.

BTW in my 7 tipper, there is no issue bumping the lower panel during ingress/ egress.

Toggle identification, a warning. My labels are above the toggles and even with all the double and triple thinking and friendly reviews, they ended up not being visible under the shadow of the G3X ledge. I don't know how much the Dyson protrude.

Suggest you leave room for a G5 on the left.
 
Don't know if I missed it, someone may have mentioned it, but you can put multiple functions on the same switch sometimes. Two examples are:

Off/nav/strobes+nav lights,

Off/taxi/taxi+landing lights.

Both including the add-ons you mentioned, of course.

Dave
 
...

3. I don’t think Dynon supports a TOGA button...

The Go Around button is a button on Skyview display or up button on the optional AP module that you show on your panel.
.
.
 

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I put a separate pushbutton on the panel for IDENT. Connects directly to the transponder.

Unfortunately, my next airplane cannot use Dynon's transponder. I will install a tailBeaconX for diversity, better ship-to-ship traffic and space-based ADS-B tracking.
 
I am alone here but I would like to see a ball". As in needle and ball. Non electric, gravity actuated and if you are in ankle deep in yogurt might become very handy.
 
Looks very nice. Try to have your switches in a logical order, that will fit a flow pattern.

Frank
 
Panel Thoughts

Looks very nice! Just a few thoughts for consideration.

Not sure about options for the -7, but in my -10 I wish my headset jacks were central (top of tunnel--no interference with the power quadrant) rather than lateral. That would allow entry/exit w/o unplugging to avoid catching them with a foot. BTW--suggest rounding the corners of the power subpanel.

My flap switch is in the same location as yours. The builder used a switch that is spring-loaded "down", but not "up". Others may feel differently, but I'd prefer spring-loaded in both directions, especially if there is not "flaps in motion" annunciator. That switch is very easy to bump when flying, causing the flap motor to run continuously.

I don't see a switch for the standby alternator field. I've been told it's best to start the engine with only one (or none) field powered up, then activate the second after things have stabilized.

Agree with the comment regarding an ALT STATIC toggle valve.

Agree with the comment for a dedicated IDENT button. I'm only peripherally familiar with the HDX, but that button should be accessible without needing to access a menu.

Do I recall correctly that there is a Comm in the HDX itself? If so, you already have a 2nd Comm planned. If not, a 2nd Comm (in the IFR Navigator would be high on my list.

I'm not sure that a smoke "ARM" toggle is needed, but no harm if you want one. The suggestion for a smoke on annunciator (esp. if no rear view mirror) seems like a better approach.

Is there room somewhere for a RAM ball mount? Even with all of the other capabilities, I like having my iPad viewable without having to go "head down".
 
Consider a touch and go. You'll come down final with full flaps, and most likely nearly full aft trim (depending on your plane/w&b situation). You touch down, and very quickly you'll want to raise flaps either fully, or partially, as well as rolling trim forward. These two things need to happen essentially simultaneously, and you only have a few seconds typically. Might be tough with both on the stick. I really like having my flap switch in the location where you have the smoke arm switch. Flaps require trim changes as you are applying them in the pattern also, although you have a lot more time then.
 
I am alone here but I would like to see a ball". As in needle and ball.
I have thought about that actually; the little trapezoid on the screen is small. A $10 ball inclinometer may do the trick...

I put a separate pushbutton on the panel for IDENT. Connects directly to the transponder.
How often would that be used? Honest question; I've flown nothing but day VFR since my checkride and I think I've only dealt with ATC on two flights since, both on flight reviews a long time ago. I guess a couple bucks for a little pushbutton couldn't hurt...


The Go Around button is a button on Skyview display or up button on the optional AP module that you show on your panel.
I stand corrected then! Course, we didn't have much need for it in Dad's airplane so I never knew it was there. But, I'm 99% sure it's not one of the separately-wired input buttons Dynon allows...

https://www.mhoxygen.com/product-category/built-in/built-in-pulse-demand/

This is one of the more popular vendors for oxygen systems, and their page for built-in systems. But note that refills are cheaper if you can bring the bottle to the supplier, rather than having to bring the supplier out to the airplane.
Wow, that's fancy! But probably well out of the cost per use limits. I think if I went with something beyond contstant flow the O2D2 might be more appropriate given anticipated use.

Looks very nice! Just a few thoughts for consideration.

Not sure about options for the -7, but in my -10 I wish my headset jacks were central (top of tunnel--no interference with the power quadrant) rather than lateral. That would allow entry/exit w/o unplugging to avoid catching them with a foot. BTW--suggest rounding the corners of the power subpanel.
Yep, corners will be rounded. I was just lazy with powerpoint.
Headset jacks are on the bulkhead forward from the panel (basically down from the subpanel). Talking to Dad, and thinking about getting in and out of his -6 (also a slider taildragger), I think that'll work well for a location, since it's out of the way on the sidewall but still accessible in flight. His jacks are right on the panel and there's not really a great place to store the headsets.

My flap switch is in the same location as yours. The builder used a switch that is spring-loaded "down", but not "up". Others may feel differently, but I'd prefer spring-loaded in both directions, especially if there is not "flaps in motion" annunciator. That switch is very easy to bump when flying, causing the flap motor to run continuously.
Point... though I'm probably going to fit the PH actuator with limit switches.

I don't see a switch for the standby alternator field. I've been told it's best to start the engine with only one (or none) field powered up, then activate the second after things have stabilized.
That's another progressive switch. Both main and aux masters are Off-Batt-Alt.

Agree with the comment regarding an ALT STATIC toggle valve.

Agree with the comment for a dedicated IDENT button. I'm only peripherally familiar with the HDX, but that button should be accessible without needing to access a menu.
See above (again, honest question, how often would I need it?). I don't think I hit the ident button since my student pilot days in 2002...

Do I recall correctly that there is a Comm in the HDX itself? If so, you already have a 2nd Comm planned. If not, a 2nd Comm (in the IFR Navigator would be high on my list.
The Dynon com is in the center stack, left side, second from top. It does have a "monitor standby" function. If I decide later I need a second com, I think I can find a space for one, but talking to my dad (retired airline capt) and a lot of guys I know offline, they don't seem to be of the opinion that it's really needed, even IFR, with the monitor function.

I'm not sure that a smoke "ARM" toggle is needed, but no harm if you want one. The suggestion for a smoke on annunciator (esp. if no rear view mirror) seems like a better approach.
I'd prefer a separate arm switch since I have the button on the stick. But I have added an annuciator to my mental list.

Is there room somewhere for a RAM ball mount? Even with all of the other capabilities, I like having my iPad viewable without having to go "head down".
Maybe on the canopy deck gusset on the left side? I'll have to play with that one and see what looks to work.
 
Consider a touch and go. You'll come down final with full flaps, and most likely nearly full aft trim (depending on your plane/w&b situation). You touch down, and very quickly you'll want to raise flaps either fully, or partially, as well as rolling trim forward. These two things need to happen essentially simultaneously, and you only have a few seconds typically. Might be tough with both on the stick. I really like having my flap switch in the location where you have the smoke arm switch. Flaps require trim changes as you are applying them in the pattern also, although you have a lot more time then.

Whoops, missed this... honestly that hasn't seemed to be a problem in the -6 with manual flaps and trim. Granted, we almost always use half flaps, but typically I pull the flaps up after the "go" and (if my memory's correct) I tend to set the trim on downwind without flaps. Flying multiple T&G I don't recall really messing with the trim after the first one. And from my two flights in a -7 and a -7A I don't recall messing much with the trim in the pattern either...
 
What have you forgotten that goes in your panel? $$$$$, lots and lots of $$$$$. Just kidding. :D

Since you have trim on both sticks I recommend you put some kind of "Trim Selector" switch somewhere on the panel or a sub-panel. That way one person can't accidentally change the trim while the other is flying. This can be a real bad situation, especially in actual IMC. I had this situation with my sticks and came up with this "simple" fix.

Trim Control.jpg

You can download my "Trim Control Selector and Indication" write up from the MAINTENANCE > UPGRADES section of my webpage.

I also have Transponder IDENT on my stick (pinky) and use it a lot more than I originally anticipated, again more in IFR flying than VFR. Just my 2 cents.

BTW, I was in Savannah a few days ago visiting my daughter and her husband. Maybe next time I go we can meet up and see your build.

:cool:
 
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Whoops, missed this... honestly that hasn't seemed to be a problem in the -6 with manual flaps and trim. Granted, we almost always use half flaps, but typically I pull the flaps up after the "go" and (if my memory's correct) I tend to set the trim on downwind without flaps. Flying multiple T&G I don't recall really messing with the trim after the first one. And from my two flights in a -7 and a -7A I don't recall messing much with the trim in the pattern either...

I can't speak to the 7's. In my 6A, 180/CS, full fuel, solo, no baggage, it will take full aft trim on final w/partial or full flaps. On go around (or T&G), if one retracts the flaps it will take quite a push on the stick at full power without a trim change. And, one needs to be retracting the flaps almost simultaneous to applying full power, or you will bust the flap speed, unless you really point the nose up. YMMV.
 
Dedicated Ident button -
The dedicated Ident button on the panel is really nice to have. If you never fly in controlled airspace (VFR into a controlled field or pickup IFR from an uncontrolled field as examples) it may not be a value for you.

Dedicated Go-around button -
The separately wired Go-Around button is possible as I have one wired in each of my Infinity sticks. I have never used them except to test their functionality but it is possible.

Oxygen -
MH O2D2 is great. I have one and love it. Bottles last forever and when you don't need it you can remove the weight from the aircraft. They do recommend that you send the units in every 2 years for new seals and software updates. Service cost $100ish dollars plus freight if I recall.

Second Comm -
The Dynon's ability to monitor the second freq is nice but not as nice as having a second radio. I monitor 121.5 on all flights incase I miss a handoff on a flight plan or by mistake fly into airspace I should not have when VFR with no flight following. I heard an ELT going off one time in no-wheres-ville and reported to ATC once too. If you do one day add a certified GPS get a used one with a comm radio if $ makes a difference. Why give up panel space for a sole GPS when you could have a nav/comm with it in the same space. The audio panel will need some space but so be it.

Remote ELT panel -
Not sure if you can reach the ELT panel from the left seat but moving it to a more central spot may serve you. There are (2) buttons on it and an led indicator. "On" and "Reset" buttons coupled with a small led to tell you it has been activated. In the event of an emergency you would activate the ELT while airborne by pushing the on button and conversely if it was set off inadvertently you would want to reset it. If you cannot access the remote panel you cannot use this functionality. As a side note, there is a small battery in the remote control panel that needs to be replaced annually. This battery powers the LED in the remote panel and if it is not charged, the light will not come on when activated.



I have thought about that actually; the little trapezoid on the screen is small. A $10 ball inclinometer may do the trick...


How often would that be used? Honest question; I've flown nothing but day VFR since my checkride and I think I've only dealt with ATC on two flights since, both on flight reviews a long time ago. I guess a couple bucks for a little pushbutton couldn't hurt...



I stand corrected then! Course, we didn't have much need for it in Dad's airplane so I never knew it was there. But, I'm 99% sure it's not one of the separately-wired input buttons Dynon allows...


Wow, that's fancy! But probably well out of the cost per use limits. I think if I went with something beyond contstant flow the O2D2 might be more appropriate given anticipated use.


Yep, corners will be rounded. I was just lazy with powerpoint.
Headset jacks are on the bulkhead forward from the panel (basically down from the subpanel). Talking to Dad, and thinking about getting in and out of his -6 (also a slider taildragger), I think that'll work well for a location, since it's out of the way on the sidewall but still accessible in flight. His jacks are right on the panel and there's not really a great place to store the headsets.


Point... though I'm probably going to fit the PH actuator with limit switches.

That's another progressive switch. Both main and aux masters are Off-Batt-Alt.

Agree with the comment regarding an ALT STATIC toggle valve.


See above (again, honest question, how often would I need it?). I don't think I hit the ident button since my student pilot days in 2002...


The Dynon com is in the center stack, left side, second from top. It does have a "monitor standby" function. If I decide later I need a second com, I think I can find a space for one, but talking to my dad (retired airline capt) and a lot of guys I know offline, they don't seem to be of the opinion that it's really needed, even IFR, with the monitor function.


I'd prefer a separate arm switch since I have the button on the stick. But I have added an annuciator to my mental list.


Maybe on the canopy deck gusset on the left side? I'll have to play with that one and see what looks to work.
 
How often would that be used? Honest question; I've flown nothing but day VFR since my checkride and I think I've only dealt with ATC on two flights since, both on flight reviews a long time ago. I guess a couple bucks for a little pushbutton couldn't hurt...

I routinely request flight following, so I deal with ATC a lot on VFR flights. It's been kind of rare that they're ever requested me to ident, but I've never had an issue with reaching over and pushing the ident button on the face of the GTX327 when requested.
 
I am alone here but I would like to see a ball". As in needle and ball. Non electric, gravity actuated and if you are in ankle deep in yogurt might become very handy.

Wouldn't a "ball" not really help in IMC? You really need the needle or turn coordinator to let you know if you're turning, and which way to level the wings. The ball alone will just keep you coordinated as you spiral out of the sky.
 
Switches, USB and knobs arranged in a logical order, in six groups.

First group. All on for takeoff and landing — Eight up on the checklist:

Master - Avionics -Alt field. - Ignition - Trim - AP Servos - Strobe -Fuel Pump -Fuel PP Run light
Avionics is a 4PST, ignition is the single Lightspeed

Second group, knobs. Cabin heat, Pilot - Rear Seats

Third group, U S B sockets
10” display - 7” displace

Forth group - Lights
Landing (3 positions, landing, wig-wag, off) - Dimmer - instrument - running

Fifth group
Alt instrument air (switch to a normally closed solenoid valve opening to cabin) - alt engine air (knob) - pitot heat

Sixth group
Seat heaters, pilot, copilot - alternate endurance buss feed

MOST IMPORTANT. Money, bags and bags of money!
 
Like what Bruce said...I always desk fly my panel and see how the flow goes for startup / t/o / landing. Have you tried that?

As a result my switches flow from left to right and then right to left based on the stage of flight. Do you have a smooth flow? Imagine your hands on the throttle and stick and practice each stage to see if you cross-hands or have to search for which comes next and find yourself crossing and moving across the panel multiple ways?
 
Windshield had to go..

Wolfrv6...The windsheld had to go to make room for the 2nd G3x. ;)

I really like what Josh mentioned about chair-flying in front of a mockup from start to finish. Sorta seems like an obvious thing to do now that I've heard it.

Thanks for starting the thread...good stuff.
 
Wouldn't a "ball" not really help in IMC? You really need the needle or turn coordinator to let you know if you're turning, and which way to level the wings. The ball alone will just keep you coordinated as you spiral out of the sky.
Absolutely true, it won't do squat all by itself. I just like the idea of one that's nice and easily visible up high on the panel for general use.

Like what Bruce said...I always desk fly my panel and see how the flow goes for startup / t/o / landing. Have you tried that?

As a result my switches flow from left to right and then right to left based on the stage of flight. Do you have a smooth flow? Imagine your hands on the throttle and stick and practice each stage to see if you cross-hands or have to search for which comes next and find yourself crossing and moving across the panel multiple ways?
Yes, I have done some chair flying in parellel with checklist development. Might swap nav and strobe lights. Otherwise, I'm mostly happy with where things are now.

Switching hands for stuff on the left should only take place prior to engine start, and then during runup (checking ignitions and fuel pumps). Otherwise, there should be no need to touch them till shutdown, short of an engine fire or something like that.

My layout and checklist flow tries to duplicate the one we use in Dad's carb-and-mag -6 as best I can manage it, given the very different systems, and I think it'll work quite well actually. Starting and runup are very different, but the pre-takeoff, post-takeoff, and landing checks are basically the same, and follow the same pattern through the cockpit. Biggest difference is flaps and trim being on the stick instead of between the seats.

I kept the complicated parts to "on ground stationary" conditions, and the critical flight phase checks are short, simple, and limited to safety-critical items.


How about a windshield to look out of when flying

Wolfrv6...The windsheld had to go to make room for the 2nd G3x. ;)
Haha! No worries, plenty of visiblity even out of a slider ;)
Second screen really is intended for the right-seater--most of those that'll be flying with me are savvy enough that they'll be able to make use of it. From firsthand experience, crew coordination on a single screen can be awkward.

Of course, there's also an element of "now or never"--I might as well fit out as best I can now, while I'm not flying and am still in "saving for building" mode. I'm probably not going to want to stop flying later for extensive upgrades, and I've promised my wife the required cash flow will go down once it's flying :p

I really like what Josh mentioned about chair-flying in front of a mockup from start to finish. Sorta seems like an obvious thing to do now that I've heard it.
If you're going to sit in the cockpit and make airplane noises, you might as well do something useful while you're there :D

Thanks for starting the thread...good stuff.
Thanks! My biggest reason for posing the question was to make sure I hadn't forgotten anything--I'm probably going to get the panel laser cut soon so I can start wiring things, and didn't want to come back later and have to add something I'd forgotten. A deliberate upmajor grade several years down the road is one thing; forgetting something I'd need from day 1 like the ELT remote and having to find space on a brand-new, freshly-painted panel is another.

I've gotten a couple of good suggestions for inexpensive but useful items already, so it's worked well.
 
Combine

You can combine some of those switches. Have you considered using 2-10 switches for nav/strobes or land/taxi lights?
 
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