A&P License using Amateur Built Experience

[Pilot135pd]

I guess if you don't have a lot of work in your area it might be better to go work with the FAA but then again that was back in 2011. Have you seen what they're charging now? A simple Private Pilot checkride is up to $600 in some areas and it's hard to schedule them because the DPEs are busy. Just a few tests a week pays the same as a full time job without the hassles. How much does a DAR inspection for an airworthiness certificate cost today?

[sahrens]

Originally Posted by AaronG

I received my A&P license 2 years ago using experience from building an RV8 and RV10. Building hours can count for experience. I used my building logs which had date, work performed, and hours worked. EAA put out some guidance a few years back with the details, just google it. The first person at my FSDO said no, but to his credit asked around his office and another person signed me off who was more familiar with experimentals.

Same issue with the practical. Examiner said I was not qualified to take the test. After additional discussion with that FSDO (different than the first) and a conference call with EAA they grudgingly admitted I qualified.

So ultimately got both the A&P at the same time, though it was a lot of studying to get there. Would not have been possible without the King videos.

My advice, stay professional, know the regulations, have them in writing, and educate the FAA personnel as required. EAA is also a resource that can help.

Aaron

Your experience and mine demonstrate what has been already said, it?s a FSDO by FSDO decision. It shouldn?t be but it is. Glad your?s worked out for you.

[sglynn]

I?m reading this thread with interests because I?d like to obtain the A&P and IA license. Finished my RV and have 20 years of owner assisted experience on Cherokees. Engineer by trade.

Could you with experience taking college classes comment on that processes for getting A&P? Our local community college offers a two program but the course map looks to have a lot of fluff classes like basic math and reading blue prints. Has anyone worked with a college to complete their knowledge and experience to passing the A&P test? How did that go?

What did your path thru a college aircraft maintenance program look like?

Thanks

[sahrens]

I went to a Community College for my A&P. Their programs are approved by the FAA and at that time required 1800 class / lab hours with mandatory attendance. We clocked in and out each day, and if you were absent you had to make the time up. The course was six semesters, two each for General, Airframe and Powerplant. But that was the FAA requirement for their program to be recognized by the FAA. I believe that is true today but the A&P program is changing so it may be different.

I tried to get credit for the airframe portion of the A&P. The school's position was "If you can get the FSDO to agree to that congratulations. But that is outside of this program." As I mentioned in an earlier post, the FSDO did not accept my build as experience. A fellow student was a retired machinist and he was hoping for credit for the General requirements, the answer was no. So we both set through lectures on "this is a screwdriver." But to be fair, the programs are designed for someone that may have little experience working with tools. So there is a lot of very basic information included. In our class there were students who had never used tools.

But each FSDO decides on its own who and what meets the requirements. So you really need to have that discussion with your local FSDO.

[74-07]

I went to two years of all day classes and studied harder than I did in AF pilot training. As another stated, there are no excused absences. If you miss a day, you have to make it up. It's a very tough course (as it should be) but very rewarding when you finally get your tickets. After a lifetime of personal and professional flying, it was a bucket list item for me.

[jrs14855]

In the 60's it was very common to get an A&P based on building EAB airplanes. In that era a lot of builders did all portions of built from scratch airplanes on their own. Now it can still be done if you find the right FAA Inspector.

[bruceh]

I tried to get into the local community college program, but it was already full and they had cut back from day track and evening tracks last year, to just evenings this Spring. This Fall 2020 it looks like they have cancelled all of the classes due to non-remote learning requirements. The first semester classes are 50/50 lecture and lab, and there is no way to safely do the lab with the COVID situation. All of the other classes have these first classes as a prerequisite. Not sure now if the program will ever recover. The community college district here is under a lot of financial pressure to cut costs, so they aren't hiring any new instructors and there have been a couple of instructors who have retired in the last year.
If there was an online way to do this A&P, I'd be very interested.

[n82rb]

the problem with giving credit for building a EAB is determining what was learned during construction. remember, the hrs need are to cover a large area of processes and methods.

powerplant: how much experience was gained during a build? did you buy a new engine from vans and hang it on the airframe? that would count for about nothing. did you rebuild your engine your shelf? if you did, did you do all the measuring and spec work or just send it out to aircraft specialties and get the 8130's from them. getting a powerplant rating allows you to work on turbine engines, you still need to get experience with that area.

Airframe: with the new kits available, did you ever have to determine rivet size, rivet spacing, and proper edge spacing? did you even have a copy of 43.13?

this is the reason that the FAA is trying to get away from issuing authorization to test base on experience, and pushing for everybody to attend a approved training program. they do not want to have to determine if an applicant has all the experience.

when I got mine 25 years ago it was alot easier to get signed off by experience. in reality, a lot of guys back then got the ticket that really were not qualified to have it.

I personally think that if you have a well documented build, you should get some credit, but it really does not cover a lot of the areas that you need experience in.

bob burns
RV-4 N82RB

[avrojockey]

Originally Posted by birddog486

It doesn't look good if your trying to use EAB building time toward the required experience needed to qualify for the A&P. The note at the end is pretty clear...

NOTE: Manufacturing of any type of aircraft, including amateur-built experimental, does not count towards practical experience. However, practical experience gained on amateur-built aircraft after the aircraft has received an Airworthiness Certificate may count.

+1

Apparently this note is a new addition to 8900.1 - this is not regulatory but pretty much tells the inspector how to do their job so EAB build time is not allowed. Crazy considering washing and airplane under supervision of a A&P would be.

I decided to take do the LSRM route and self-supervise my 30 months experience...MOSAIC proposed rules will hopefully allow EAB condition inspections by LSRMs also.

[WingsOnWheels]

I went to A&P school and got my license then down the road built my RV-6A (like others here). I can say that the RV build certainly made me a better sheet metal guy and overall mechanic than I was before. However, there are a number of sheet metal skils not required to build and RV, but learned at school, such as precise layout, calculating bend allowances, using a shear or brake, forming. Other aircraft stuff; safety a turnbuckle, tension a cable.......

Same for powerplant. The RV build was not nearly as in-depth as A&P school for powerplant.

Now of course, none of this applies to everyone, many assemble their own engine, do lots of custom work, or have other experience. But for the average RV builder, it is unlikely they would pass the written or O&P exam without a whole lot of study. Turbine engines, radials (not sure if they still teach that), engine tuning, tube and fabric, topics not covered when building an RV. And that is assuming you built a nice RV (we have all seen scary ones).

So if you are interested in getting your A&P, unless you have other experience, go to a proper A&P school. You will be better for it in the end.