A&P License using Amateur Built Experience

[Steve]

Several years ago, I attended a forum at Oshkosh on this topic. The bottom lines were:
1. Yes, your time spent building your plane counts toward your AME rating.
2. All that time spent must be heavily documented in the form of a builder's log book, photos, receipts, inspection reports, etc. This is a case where it didn't happen if it ain't written down. Bring a large box of evidence to prove your case.

Not covered in the forum were the differences in how FSDOs address this matter. It appears the "S" may be different at every FSDO.

[Ironflight]

Yes, we all know that different FSDO's interpret things differently, and that has always been the case - probably always will be. However, while it is occasionally due to malice, it is often due simply to the fact that a new inspector simply isn't familiar with the Byzantine and myriad rules that govern the huge number of tasks they are expected to be able to perform. So help them out!

No you have to do this politely, and pick the right inspector - go to some FSDO-sponsored Wings events, and see which inspectors liek to go out and talk with GA types - those are the ones you want to approach.

Do your homework. Go to:

http://fsims.faa.gov/PICResults.aspx...egory=all~menu

....or if that link doesn't work, search for FAA Order 8900.1. Navigate to Volume 5, Chapter 5, and scroll to paragraph 5-1134....and start reading. You'll find that they are looking for you to prove 30 months of equivalent experience, which can be done in many different ways. Keep reading - there are a lot of details.

Once you have done this, prepare your case for the inspector (that you have chosen), citing the Order, so that they can simply check your work. If you meet those requirements, a good inspector will smile and shake your hand - you've done the work to prove he's within his bounds. If you have to squint and hold your mouth just right in order to show that you meet the requirements, then you might not be there, and you can expect a different response.

Be polite, by the book, and willing to work with the Inspector, and you can get a sign-off. THEN...the study (for the tests) begins!

[Pilot135pd]

Originally Posted by acam37

I just got laid off after 15 years in the oilfield. I am ready to to get my 8610-2 application reviewed but the FSDO in Houston is not accepting appointments until this pandemic is over. 30-60 days. I?ve got my DD-214 showing my airframe schools, a letter of recommendation from an A&P and I?m presenting the letter from Mel that I was going to use to get my repairman certificate for good measure.

I was just thinking about your situation and was going to let people here know in case someone had a contact that could get your permission. Hopefully someone here knows an FAA Inspector with a heart that can help you.

[Dave12]

No inspector shopping in Ballmer. You will be dealing with the airworthiness inspector that handles your area. I don?t think it?s really any different in Philadelphia.

[birddog486]

It doesn't look good if your trying to use EAB building time toward the required experience needed to qualify for the A&P. The note at the end is pretty clear.

This is straight from the rules:

C. Presenting Documented Evidence. Applicants who only present evidence in the form of documented practical experience in maintaining airframes and/or powerplants must go through a FSDO/International Field Office (IFO) to receive authorization to test. Applicants must present at least 18 months of practical experience appropriate to the rating requested. For a Mechanic Certificate with both ratings, the requirement is 30 months of experience concurrently performing the duties appropriate to both ratings. If the applicant has not met the required 30 months concurrently performing the duties appropriate to both ratings, calculate each rating separately using the 18-month requirement for each. The practical experience must provide the applicant with basic knowledge of and skills in the procedures, practices, materials, tools, machine tools, and equipment used in aircraft construction, alteration, maintenance, and inspection. All applicants who apply based on experience only must have verifiable experience in 50 percent of the subject areas listed for the rating sought (refer to part 147 appendices B, C, and D) in order to be eligible. There is no expectation that an applicant be highly proficient in overhauls, major repairs, or major alterations in the minimum 18/30 months of experience. Types of practical experience that may be evaluated are (see evaluating procedures in subparagraph 5-1134D):

1) Practical experience gained on U.S.-registered aircraft.

2) Practical experience gained while serving in a U.S. Military aviation maintenance occupation. Military experience/records may be evaluated for authorization to take the mechanic knowledge test based on documented experience and Military Occupational Specialty (MOS) code, Air Force Specialty Code (AFSC), or Navy Enlisted Code (NEC), as authorized in ? 65.77. See Figure 5-135, Military Occupational Specialty Codes, for FAA-accepted military codes.

3) Practical experience gained in foreign-registered civilian and military aircraft.

4) Practical experience gained from a combination of all of the above to meet the 18/30-month experience requirement.

NOTE: Manufacturing of any type of aircraft, including amateur-built experimental, does not count towards practical experience. However, practical experience gained on amateur-built aircraft after the aircraft has received an Airworthiness Certificate may count.

[RVDan]

Originally Posted by emsvitil

Would they take into consideration automotive engines ? Transmissions (PSRU) ?

Only if the vehicles they were installed in could fly😆

[sahrens]

I tried to get a reduction in the airframe required experience due to my RV-7 build. I was politely told no by the FSDO. An explanation was offered that my build log was MY documentation for an AW certificate without third party verification. When you work 30 months to get your A&P experience requirements met the supervising A&P or IA documents what you have done.

I ended up finishing the course.

[AaronG]

I received my A&P license 2 years ago using experience from building an RV8 and RV10. Building hours can count for experience. I used my building logs which had date, work performed, and hours worked. EAA put out some guidance a few years back with the details, just google it. The first person at my FSDO said no, but to his credit asked around his office and another person signed me off who was more familiar with experimentals.

Same issue with the practical. Examiner said I was not qualified to take the test. After additional discussion with that FSDO (different than the first) and a conference call with EAA they grudgingly admitted I qualified.

So ultimately got both the A&P at the same time, though it was a lot of studying to get there. Would not have been possible without the King videos.

My advice, stay professional, know the regulations, have them in writing, and educate the FAA personnel as required. EAA is also a resource that can help.

Aaron

[Pilot135pd]

Originally Posted by AaronG

My advice, stay professional, know the regulations, have them in writing, and educate the FAA personnel as required. EAA is also a resource that can help.

Aaron

Great advice. Sadly the FAA isn't what it used to be. The majority of the experienced Inspectors are either retired or are now supervisors and won't talk to you unless you threaten to file a complaint against one of their subordinates in Washington. Then you have a lot of the current Inspectors that don't have the knowledge or experience and it seems they don't care to get it. They're in a government job that's extremely hard to get fired from no matter how incompetent you are and their unions are super powerful.

The knowledgeable guys know it's way more financially rewarding $$$$ to stay outside of the FAA as a DAR, DER, DPE, or DME, or just stay completely retired and enjoy life flying for fun.

[BobTurner]

Originally Posted by Pilot135pd

The knowledgeable guys know it's way more financially rewarding $$$$ to stay outside of the FAA as a DAR, DER, DPE, or DME, or just stay completely retired and enjoy life flying for fun.

Maybe things have changed. In 2011 my DAR told me I was one of his last clients - he was taking a job with the FSDO. He expected the take home pay would be about the same, but with much better fringe benefits (health, retirement).