0-320 Question

rph142 · #1 05-20-2007, 08:58 PM

Im looking into saving some money by purchasing a used 0-320, however I would like an IO-320 with one EI and one mag. So is it possible to convert an 0-320 to an IO-320 and if so for how much? Also, is it possible to install an EI? I want to avoid spending 15K for a used engine plus 5K for parts when I could buy a new one for 23K. Thanks.

Rob

Rivethead · #2 05-20-2007, 09:29 PM

What you're thinking of doing is all possible. One of the things that has to happen is the oil sump will need to be replaced. You'll be changing from a hot air induction to a cold air induction. A sump just by itself is a fairly pricey item. Also you said you wanted to keep the dollar amount below 5K, that's probably not going to happen unless you can find some very good deals on parts. I also question use of used engines pretty vigorously.

patterson · #3 05-20-2007, 10:44 PM

I'd be looking at new IO-320's. I didn't. Paid $14,000 for a used 200 hour 1997 O-320-D1A from a guy that had it on his RV-4. It had already sat about 18 months and when we did a compression test, one had a bad valve and zero compression. He reduced the price to cover overhaul of the offending cylinder, so I believed I was still getting a deal and took it.

BIG MISTAKE!

I ended up having to do an IRAN teardown/inspection that totaled $8800, plus another $2500 for the cylinder work (all 4). Doing the math works out to $24,300 invested for less motor than I could have bought (brand new) from Vans for abour $22,000 at the time.

I think TMX is offering one, so is Superior and of course Bart L. in Canada has an excellent reputation. I also really like Mattituck in Long Island, NY.

Your call, of course, just buyer beware. Also the Value of your plane will be dramatically higher with a factory new motor than if you mount a used one

Ron
N8ZD
RV-4

RV6_flyer · #4 05-21-2007, 05:25 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rivethead

What you're thinking of doing is all possible. One of the things that has to happen is the oil sump will need to be replaced. You'll be changing from a hot air induction to a cold air induction. A sump just by itself is a fairly pricey item. Also you said you wanted to keep the dollar amount below 5K, that's probably not going to happen unless you can find some very good deals on parts. I also question use of used engines pretty vigorously.

NEGATIVE. The oil sump does not need replaced. The Lycoming can have UPDRAFT fuel injection. The sump only needs replaced if you want FORWARD FACING fuel injection / cold air induction. Add $2,200 to the cost if you do.

What year were the cylinders manufactured? Do they have the ports needed to add fuel injectors?

You are looking at $3K to $3,500 for the FI system. Add $500 for a boost pump and $200 for a mechanical fuel pump. All the EI's are about $1,200.

I paid $2,600 for my used engine. I rebuilt it to NEW spces. Total cost was $12,000. At the time I purchased the core (15-years ago) to rebuild, I could have purchased a NEW Lycoming from Van for $12,000.

Rivethead · #5 05-21-2007, 12:20 PM

Gary makes a good point about hot air induction, I even thought about it for about two minutes. Also the point made about rebuilding used engines is very true. I think everyone I've talked to that has rebuilt a used engine said they would never do it again, at least not with the idea that they're going to save money.

Mel · #6 05-21-2007, 12:56 PM

If you are an experienced A&P and don't mind a little work, rebuilding a Lycoming is not a big deal. If you are not experienced, and are looking at it from a "money" standpoint, then buy new!
I rebuilt mine and would do it again. But not everyone gets the same mileage.

RV6_flyer · #7 05-21-2007, 01:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rivethead

Gary makes a good point about hot air induction, I even thought about it for about two minutes. Also the point made about rebuilding used engines is very true. I think everyone I've talked to that has rebuilt a used engine said they would never do it again, at least not with the idea that they're going to save money.

Yes but I built up the engine that is in my airplane. Last week I purchased a 360 core to rebuild as a replacement. I would rather have a new engine but do not want to make interest payments on the money to get it. By building it myself, I realize that I may spend the same abount of money but it will be PAID for when it is done.

Deuskid · #8 05-21-2007, 01:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RV6_flyer

Yes but I built up the engine that is in my airplane. Last week I purchased a 360 core to rebuild as a replacement. I would rather have a new engine but do not want to make interest payments on the money to get it. By building it myself, I realize that I may spend the same abount of money but it will be PAID for when it is done.

I'm not sure I follow your logic. If you are going to 'pay as you go' and end up paying the same amount by the time you are done how is there any difference than if you put the payments in an interest bearing account and accumulate the total amount to buy new?

Just wondering...

John

Brian Vickers · #9 05-21-2007, 01:53 PM

Data point for you - no intent to debate, just my opinion here.... I am at a fork in the road....

I purchased a used O-320D1A (pickled for 13 years) and am about to take it apart to ship ALL the components out for inspection and compliance, etc. I now realize this is a HUGE wildcard. If (BIG IF) all goes well and my parts can be returned to service without major rework, or replacement, I'll hopefully be at about $13,000, including my core cost of $4,800. If (ANOTHER BIG IF) something expensive does not pass (crank, a few cylinders) I'll blow past the cost of a brand new clone kit, with nickel plated cylinders!!! I have already traded the old carb. for a reman, and had the nearly new mags and harnesses inspected (now have yellow tags). The starter is a nearly new Prestolite, an accessory I can live with but would rather have a lighter one. I see that AERO sells the kits for not much more than I'm attempting to pay. I said attempting!!!! My fork in the road / Monday morning quarterback view is: kit engine = no parts inspection failure risk. I am seriously considering keeping my accessories and selling the core on Ebay. My wife thinks I need counseling after spending all the time I did to find the core. Yes, writing a check for a new engine kit is more painful than ?attempting? to piece meal your way to slightly less cost. I am a member of the ?big check writing pain club? so here I sit. My wife and teenage kids have banned me from talking about aircraft engines at the dinner table.

If you find a used engine that can be run for a while before you rebuild, a whole different set of circumstances apply. My experience was: finding a low priced core or running engine, with serviceable accessories, is hard to do. I am very sure they are out there but for me they were always geographically remote from my home state of Washington. Also, if you have the ability to do your own parts inspections? well, you are printing money in the form of sweat equity.

Sorry for the long post. I just want you to consider all aspects.

By the way, I think EI and FI are marvelous, no debate needed. For me it?s just another big check to write.

Sincerely, Brian Vickers, RV4 ? still finishing? and finishing?. and finishing

airguy · #10 05-21-2007, 02:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RV6_flyer

Yes but I built up the engine that is in my airplane. Last week I purchased a 360 core to rebuild as a replacement. I would rather have a new engine but do not want to make interest payments on the money to get it. By building it myself, I realize that I may spend the same abount of money but it will be PAID for when it is done.

That's simply a BUDGETING issue, not a FINANCING issue. Same dollars, same time period, no difference.