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Tailwheel training in a Super Decathlon for RV7 suitable?

K

KayS

Well Known Member
Hi All,

my tailwheel RV7 (IO375/CS prop) is not so far away from first flight. There are still a lot of things to be prepared, including myself. I am a low time pilot almost entirely with tri-gears (Katana, 172, PA28 etc.). Lately i had the chance to make ten T/O and landings with a flight instructor in a Grob G109. Fortunatly humans and aircraft were not damaged at the end of the day. I did not feel well at all in the G109. So we can assume that i am not qualified enough to do first flight/phase1.

Now there's a chance to get tailwheel training at a flight school nearby in a Super Decathlon. My question to the ones that are more experienced... is the Decathlon suitable enough get qualified to ride the RV7? Is it similar, easierer more difficult to take-off and land?

There are sveral adresses in north america to get flight training especially for RV's, but we don't have that luxury in Europe (i am based in Germany).

Best Regards
Kay
 
KayS said:
Hi All,

my tailwheel RV7 (IO375/CS prop) is not so far away from first flight. There are still a lot of things to be prepared, including myself. I am a low time pilot almost entirely with tri-gears (Katana, 172, PA28 etc.). Lately i had the chance to make ten T/O and landings with a flight instructor in a Grob G109. Fortunatly humans and aircraft were not damaged at the end of the day. I did not feel well at all in the G109. So we can assume that i am not qualified enough to do first flight/phase1.

Now there's a chance to get tailwheel training at a flight school nearby in a Super Decathlon. My question to the ones that are more experienced... is the Decathlon suitable enough get qualified to ride the RV7? Is it similar, easierer more difficult to take-off and land?

There are sveral adresses in north america to get flight training especially for RV's, but we don't have that luxury in Europe (i am based in Germany).

Best Regards
Kay
Click to expand...

It will certainly help with getting the basics of tail wheel landings and take offs. In all likelihood, your insurance will require you to have a certain amount of training with a CFI in the RV-7 before you can fly it solo, and the CFI has to have certain minimums as well, but I forget what they were. I flew for something like 5 hours before we both felt that I was ready. I already had a tail wheel endorsement flying Piper Cubs.

Jim
 
I will share my experience. I too needed RV experience, however I was shooting for a RV7A. So the insurance company allowed me to fly with an instructor who flew a RV7. After flying in the RV, going back and flying a Cessna was like the difference between a Turtle and a Rabbit. I had lots of time in a C-170 and a Champ. Happy flying you will love the 7
 
Time in any tailwheel airplane will help. My experience is the Decathlon is similar to my RV4 (and your RV7) in approach and landing. I would recommend that you become comfortable landing the Decathlon and find anybody with a RV6 or 7 that is willing to give you a ride. This will help with sight picture for your RV7.
 
Agree with all the tailwheel comments. When you start flying the -7, be gentle with the throttle till you get used to the power.
 
something a bit less expensive..

I would suggest a 65hp Champ (hand prop) if one is available. That thing is so light that you really have to be on your toes unless there is no wind. Been flying one of those since I could reach the stick - still have it. Got my 1st airplane ride in that plane when I was an infant.

If you can handle the Mighty Champ, you are ready for the Killer T-6!! The -7 will be too easy once the Champ is tamed.

Have fun!
 
Maybe ask your insurance Rep what will be required? More than being prepared, it is meeting their requirements??
 
F1Boss said:
I would suggest a 65hp Champ (hand prop) if one is available. That thing is so light that you really have to be on your toes unless there is no wind. Been flying one of those since I could reach the stick - still have it. Got my 1st airplane ride in that plane when I was an infant.

If you can handle the Mighty Champ, you are ready for the Killer T-6!! The -7 will be too easy once the Champ is tamed.

Have fun!
Click to expand...

Haha. I started to get my initial tail wheel endorsement in just such a Champ. Before I got proficient I switched to a Cub (clone) with all the comforts (including a starter and an O-200). After the tail wheel sign-off I moved to a few hours of dual in an RV-8, then about 10 of transition training in my RV-6. Some 50 hours later I think *maybe* I?m ready to try the Champ again. That thing will make you a pilot! Never scary, but challenging, and you can *never* stop paying attention.

Back on topic, yes do get time in a Decathalon, it?s fine experience (and much better than nothing). Then get some proper transition training in your RV of choice.

Peter
 
KayS said:
I did not feel well at all in the G109. So we can assume that i am not qualified enough to do first flight/phase1.

Now there's a chance to get tailwheel training at a flight school nearby in a Super Decathlon. My question to the ones that are more experienced... is the Decathlon suitable enough get qualified to ride the RV7?
Click to expand...

Assume that you want to get yourself ready for AFTER the first flight/phase1? I am also relatively low time and the advice I've received, and that I am going to heed, is to have somebody else who is very experienced in RV's do the first flight as well as the first five hours. Even if you do some time in a Decathlon or another RV, I don't think that is enough to prepare one to be a test pilot, if your starting position is low hours in C172, Piper etc. There will be just too much going on at once, IMHO.
 
I believe that the Super Decathlon is the best non-RV trainer when actual RV training is unavailable. The symmetrical wing makes it handle much more like an RV in the low speed and landing regime than Ciatabrias or similar. I'm flying one weekly for currency while my RV-8 is down for its ADS-B installation.
 
D Weisgerber said:
I had quite a few hours in a Citabra before I flew my RV-6. I seemed like a pretty easy transition.
Click to expand...

+1. I've been flying a Citabria to keep my tailwheel skills current and when doing my transition training with Mike Seager I found the -7 to be easier to handle.

Dave
 
Kay, I agree with Paul. Find someone with lots of experience in tailwheel RVs and have them do the first couple flights. I assume your RV is in Germany, so I don't know what the rules are there. But if it's in the US, you can have an experienced RV pilot fly with you during the test flying.
I flew for a living for 36 years, but had very little RV experience. So I had my friend, Tom Berge, a highly experienced RV instructor do the first two flights and fly with me on the third flight. My first flight was still very exciting and memorable.

Frank
 
What ever you fly, learn wheel landings. Most of the folks i have helped needed 10 hours in the pattern and 60 laps.
 
Thanks for the inputs... will go ahead to get trained on the Decathlon. Can't hurt.

I didn't want to start a discussion if somebody with my skill level should do the first flight. Even if somebody else does the first hours, at some point you will sit in the aircraft alone.
 
pjc said:
Haha. I started to get my initial tail wheel endorsement in just such a Champ. Before I got proficient I switched to a Cub (clone) with all the comforts (including a starter and an O-200). After the tail wheel sign-off I moved to a few hours of dual in an RV-8, then about 10 of transition training in my RV-6. Some 50 hours later I think *maybe* I?m ready to try the Champ again. That thing will make you a pilot! Never scary, but challenging, and you can *never* stop paying attention.

Back on topic, yes do get time in a Decathalon, it?s fine experience (and much better than nothing). Then get some proper transition training in your RV of choice.

Peter
Click to expand...


Hmm sorry but about which Champ are you talking about? I am co-owning a 7ECA from 1965 with the Oleo Gear and I can`t imagine that there is a taildragger around which is easier to land? It nearly lands itself. Compared to Jodel`s which are way more sensitive..

As I will have to do my first flight as well soon (1/2 year) I will train in a Cap 10 as this Aircraft has about the same power than my RV-8...
 
Kay

I flew a Taylorcraft to get my tailwheel signoff.

A friend had a RV-6 that I flew a couple of times, but he wouldn't let me land it.

It helps to get adjusted to the slow flight feeling.

I took it to short final several times.

Rv's are smooth and don't slow down very easily.

On the first flight I made several aborted attempts on landing, on purpose, to feel the sink rate.

I also was on a grass runway. more forgiving than the pavement.
 
There are champs and there are champs. some have a large dorsal extension in front of the fin (the later ones I think). the early ones don't and are more of a handful.

Fly any tailwheel you can get your hands on. But don't do the first flight as a tailwheel beginner, or as a pilot who is not current due to too many hrs bashing rivets and turning wrenches. You need to have the flying as second nature so that you can deal with any mechanical issues you might have. Get somebody with lots of time that doesn't have to think about the hands and feet. Then when everything is working well, learn how to fly it. RVs are not difficult tailwheel airplanes to fly.
 
I just experienced my first flight in my RV-9A I have years of flying experience. . I took an instructor with me for that first flight. My first flight was 0.7 hours. We stalled the aeroplane and did slow flight and maneuvers. Only 1 landing. I was happy I had the instructor along to build my confidence. He also corrected me on some of my procedures. My latest experience was in a 172. The RV does handle different but easy to get used to. I recommend you use an instructor who has flown an RV for as long as it takes to get comfortable.
I learned to fly on a tail wheel. I feel any tail wheel experience will help.
 
8317R said:
If you can land a Citabria or Decathlon from the back set you will be set.
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+1

Before I purchased my 4 I had no TW time so I got 20 hrs on a Super Cub and 10 on a Citabria (all front seat). I was assured by a club member at our field (who had built 8 RV's and a Rocket) that that was enough to be able to handle the 4 safely. My insurance through EAA Canada didn't require any specific RV time and only 25 hrs TW. I then went out west, picked up my 4 and flew it 1500 nm home. Nervous for the first little bit but comfortable after that. A wonderful plane to fly for the 4 yrs and 450hrs I had it!

My 7 is almost as much fun. They both have the characteristic Vans predictable performance with well balanced and light control touch, although I really miss the centreline seating of the 4.
 
I have gotten several RV6/7 owners insurance approval for their airplanes by flying with them solely in standard and super Decathlons. Their RVs were not in phase 1. I can't recall their experience levels, but as others have mentioned if you can land the Decathlon well from either the front or back seat, you'll be ok in the RV.

That's not to say the aircraft are the same -- obviously they're not. The primary challenge when moving to your 7 will be sitting off centerline, as one of the important things about tailwheel landings is to ensure the airplane is pointed in the exact same direction that it is traveling.

The Decathlon back seat provides a more limited forward view, but has the benefit of situating you further away from the center of gravity, which makes feeling the yaw easier. The front seat is almost co-located with the CG, but does provide an unobstructed forward view.

Whether I'd be comfortable transitioning someone to an RV by utilizing a Decathlon would depend on their total experience, tailwheel time, and currency. But it can be--and has been--done.

--Ron
 
Training - no reason not to.....

I have a -3 and my training was 1 hour in the backseat of a champ. What a plane. I did learn to fly in a 170 so tailwheel time is nearly all of my low 350 hours. The Wittman gear still gets me after 100 -3 landings but I usually make it stick after a while.

A recent nose over in a Stearman taught me that training is invaluable, no matter how many hours you have.
 
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