Repairman Certificate

[n82rb]

to expand on what paul said,the experience need to get the A&P must be acceptable to the administrator. if you are trying to go that route, for the most part, that means that you are under the direct supervision of a A&P. since most people do not have an A&P watching over them as they build, the time spent building will not count towards the requirement for the certificate. In my case, it was just an entry on the list of areas covered on the letter my supervising A&P IA submitted to the FAA for me.

the FAA is very reluctant to issue the right to test, based on experience gained working under an A&P, they want to see people go through approved schools. you really need to have your documentation all in order to get them to sign off on it other wise.

i was very lucky in that the inspector was very well informed about my mentor, the flight school we ran, and the work that was being done. if they want, they can ask for copies of time sheets, work logs, and a whole list of things to prove the time was done.

bob burns
RV-4 N82RB

[sglynn]

I went to FSDO and received Repairman Certification today. Only took 20 minutes. I took the print out from MyKitLog.com and that made it fast and easy for them.

BUT one big lesson Learned: Do the Repairman Certificate when you get your aircraft's Airworthy Certificate. Because legally you can't do maintenance to your experimental aircraft unless you have the Repairman Certificate or A&P. Don't wait till the first Condition Inspection is needed. If you have to do some changes during Phase I testing you can't legally do it without the repairman certificate.

FSDO FAA guy told me he had a builder come in and proudly showed him his airframe's log book with entries for maintenance he had done during Phase I and the first year, but all prior to the first condition inspection. He said while he was receiving his Repairman Certificate he also got written up for performing aircraft maintenance without a license. Don't be that guy.

[Cannon]

Originally Posted by sglynn

BUT one big lesson Learned: Do the Repairman Certificate when you get your aircraft's Airworthy Certificate. Because legally you can't do maintenance to your experimental aircraft unless you have the Repairman Certificate or A&P. Don't wait till the first Condition Inspection is needed. If you have to do some changes during Phase I testing you can't legally do it without the repairman certificate.

Unless I’m completely off my rocker, this is factually incorrect. You cannot performance the condition inspection, but anyone can do maintenance on an experimental, whether it be a repairman, A&P, or the hobo on the street corner, as long as it is recorded in the logbook.

[FinnFlyer]

Really Steve?

From the posts by Mel and others, you can do maintenance but not the annual condition inspection unless you have the Repairman (or A&P) cert.

Sounds like your FSDO FAA guy needs some education.

Finn

[Ironflight]

Originally Posted by sglynn

I went to FSDO and received Repairman Certification today. Only took 20 minutes. I took the print out from MyKitLog.com and that made it fast and easy for them.

BUT one big lesson Learned: Do the Repairman Certificate when you get your aircraft's Airworthy Certificate. Because legally you can't do maintenance to your experimental aircraft unless you have the Repairman Certificate or A&P. Don't wait till the first Condition Inspection is needed. If you have to do some changes during Phase I testing you can't legally do it without the repairman certificate.

FSDO FAA guy told me he had a builder come in and proudly showed him his airframe's log book with entries for maintenance he had done during Phase I and the first year, but all prior to the first condition inspection. He said while he was receiving his Repairman Certificate he also got written up for performing aircraft maintenance without a license. Don't be that guy.

As others have noted Steve, this is incorrect, but its typical of FSDO inspectors who don't deal with Experimentals very often. They like to speak with authority about the regs, even when they don't know what they are. The best ting to do in cases like this is smile and nod, say ?thank you?, and get out of there with your certificate - then research the regs yourself.

We?ve got a long-time inspector at the Reno FSDO who insists that experiemntals need to have all of the instruments called out in part 61.205, when if you actually READ the reg, it says it only applies to aircraft with a ?Standard airworthiness certificate? - not special A/W, such as experimental. We just dont worry about him, as all the other inspectors are great!

Paul

[rvbuilder2002]

Originally Posted by sglynn

BUT one big lesson Learned: Do the Repairman Certificate when you get your aircraft's Airworthy Certificate. Because legally you can't do maintenance to your experimental aircraft unless you have the Repairman Certificate or A&P.

This is totally, 100% false. But it is what a lot of FAA ASI's believe (and will tell you, and it is usually not worth spending any time debating it with them).

There is a lot of past discussion here in the forums but the key reason is FAR 43.1,B which says -

(b) This part does not apply to any aircraft for which the FAA has issued an experimental certificate, unless the FAA has previously issued a different kind of airworthiness certificate for that aircraft.

FAR43.1,B is the applicability part of FAR 43. FAR 43 is the who, how, where part of the FARs regarding maintenance and inspections of aircraft.

BTW, this is actually why the FAA issues an operating limitation stating who can do the annual condition inspection and why they issue (just the builder) a Repairmans Certificate..... because FAR43.1,B totally removes any regulatory control of who can do condition inspections on an experimental aircraft.

Finally, if you look at your operating limitations it says you have to be a Repairman (or an A&P) to do the condition inspection, but it doesn't say anything about maintenance, repairs, etc.
And because it doesn't, and FAR43.1 says that none of FAR 43 that regulates who can do maint., and preventative maintenance, and repairs, anyone can do them.

[Mel]

Scott has everything down pat. Good description.

I've been dealing with this probably longer than your FAA Guy has been with the FAA and I assure you that the repairman certificate is NOT required for maintenance, or even for major modifications.

[sglynn]

CORRECTION: I received an email tonight from the FAA guy at the FSDO office correcting what he told me earlier about needing the Repairman Certificate in order to do maintenance on your experimental. He said, he was thinking of part 135.

Weird because I pushed back, but only a little, when he said I couldn't even change the oil without the Repairman Cert. But I didn't want to argue with a Fed. in his building. So I guess a builder is okay waiting to get the Repairman Cert anytime during the first year before the first Condition Inspection is due.

[RV8JD]

Originally Posted by sglynn

CORRECTION: I received an email tonight from the FAA guy at the FSDO office correcting what he told me earlier about needing the Repairman Certificate in order to do maintenance on your experimental. He said, he was thinking of part 135.

Weird because I pushed back, but only a little, when he said I couldn't even change the oil without the Repairman Cert. But I didn't want to argue with a Fed. in his building. So I guess a builder is okay waiting to get the Repairman Cert anytime during the first year before the first Condition Inspection is due.

Kudos to the FAA Inspector for contacting you to correct his error.

[DanBaier]

+1 The guy is good for getting back to you to clarify the issue. He may be your new "go to" in that FSDO.