Buyer?s Etiquette

[dreed]

Originally Posted by Ron B.

The owner used you for his first potential buyer and told him he had an offer coming after lunch from you.

Exactly my thought

[iaw4]

I have sold two airplanes and bought three airplanes. (guess how many I own now ;-).) I am also looking for an RV now.

The golden rule works well. I treat the seller how I would want to be treated. I value their time and basic honesty. I do the same. I do expect honesty when it comes to condition. I do not when it comes to price negotiation.

I do sometimes ask what the bottom line is. when I sold, I felt that this was a perfectly legitimate question for a buyer to ask. it is also perfectly legitimate for the seller to say "I do not want to say" or pick a number that is higher than what the bottom line is. now that I want to buy, I feel worse "low-balling" a seller to try to learn what the seller would take. and I would not want to bid my own higher reservation price as a buyer, thus bidding against myself.

both can walk away if the price does not converge. if the seller does not like the buyer, he can walk away, too.

this forum is a wonderful resource for learning about airplanes and vans airplane people.

[wnplt]

I negotiated a price with the builder sight unseen. Then when I saw how beautiful the build was I gave him another 2 grand. I had been looking and saw a lot of horrible builds for a lot of money.

[flytoboat]

When someone asks what my bottom dollar is, my reply is that although I will entertain offers, I have researched the market and think my asking price is fair in today's market. That lets them know I'm not looking for low-ball offers and puts the ball back in their court.

[74-07]

I recently looked at a beautiful plane and told the owner that he was about to hear something that is rare. I told him he wasn't asking enough. I ended up buying another plane (only because the owner decided he was going to keep it) but made a new friend in the process.

[BCP Boys]

The seller whom I purchased my RV-7 from exactly 6 years ago had the same experience, thankfully for me it was still available because of that. I called him 2 days after it was posted on Barnstormers and he said that several had called and 5 (yes 5) potential buyers had pissed him off within the first 30 seconds doing exactly what you described in your original post. After I asked him a few questions about it and asked for additional pictures he told me if I made an offer over the phone he would hang up on me which I obviously didn't. Even though I live in Georgia and the plane was in California I'm glad that I respected the buyer enough to make an investment and go look at the plane (the pictures helped make that decision). Once I looked it over, flew it with him and made a friend, it was easy to start talking about an offer and why I made that offer based on my findings. He could have told me to take a hike but I'm glad he didn't because I have enjoyed an RV grin for the past 6 years and I believe the reason was how I handled the purchase. I believe my RV7 is where it belongs too.

[vlittle]

I bought a partially built RV off of a Barnstormers ad. Turns out I could have walked to his house! It looked great, and the MD-RA Inspector was there when I arrived. Perfect.

I offered full price, wrote him a deposit check, delivery included (1 mile) and everything seemed like it was coming together. He called and said that he didn't tell me that he had a verbal sale from someone outside of the country who was sending a mechanic to inspect, but no deposit had been paid. In the end the seller consulted a lawyer that said that until consideration made (money was paid), a contract had not been formed. I got the kit, and the unfortunate other party was upset. There is more to this story, but that needs a pint or two to discuss. I felt bad for the other buyer, but happy to get the kit.

Fast forward 5 years and I sold my 9A. Ad on VAF, COPA and Barnstormers. Lots of interest, but being in Canada scared off some buyers. The price was just a bit under 'market' to attract interest. So my engineer buddy in the hangar complex walks over one day and asked how the sales process was going.... sold it to him that day with a hometown discount, delivery included... we pushed it into his hangar!

Oddly, no one seems to use brokers to buy/sell homebuilt aircraft. There is a business opportunity here for someone with knowledge and skill in homebuilts to provide this service at a reasonable price, especially for trans-border sales.

V

[74-07]

My son and I bought a beautiful RV-8 in Canada. The importation and U.S. registration process was a bunch of paperwork and a visit by a DAR. It's just not that difficult.

[FlyinTiger]

In 2019 I took a good hard look at five RV-7s before buying one.
I asked for log book pictures and current pictures of the aircraft. Several sellers sent pictures that were years old, ten years old in one case.

The sellers who didn?t want to send pictures I asked for or were not interested in log book discussions were allowed to find another buyer.

One RV-7 I saw in Northern CA was particularly promising. It was overdue for its condition inspection and had not been maintained much for the last couple of years. The seller agreed to allow me to bring my RV builder/prebuy A&P IA with me to take a look, and in the process of two days we would assist him in completing his long over due inspection as well as complete the prebuy at my expense. I traveled from SC to CA.

I paid my IA to take notes and determine the value of the aircraft. When we completed the work at the end of day two, complete with a list of discrepancies, the seller told me he was too tired to talk about the sale. I had to get home the next day, but would have really preferred negotiating in person, with my IA present. I got direction from my IA (who has done many RV prebuys) on what to offer this gentleman for his -7 and proceeded to call him at the appointed time during my travel home to SC. I had specific data points backing up my carefully calculated offer.

It is clear that the seller did not even consider that someone might offer less than his full asking price. I had not dared guess at a price before a thorough prebuy due to the lack of recent maintenance. He was extremely offended that I would offer less than his asking price and did not counter offer at all. No negotiating took place to my disappointment. I really wanted that -7, but I had to let my emotions go by the wayside. He could have offered to fix all the open items at least. I don?t think he ever had the intention of selling.

Another -7 I looked at was highly modified and was unique, but seemed to stray from the norm enough to raise my personal caution flag.

I carefully considered another -7 that was 12 years old and had less than 300 hours on the engine that lived near the coast. I was tempted since it had all the items on my list, but Lycomings don?t like to sit. The pictures were many years old so I asked for a FaceTime walk around. The plane hardly flew so it looked like the pictures except for a different spinner. The log books were not in order, so three strikes, passed on that one. I referred another VAF member to look at it and he bought it for full asking price. I probably missed a gem after all.

My purchase came after 10 months of searching. It?s a fairy tale, I?ll admit. I received a call responding to my WTB ad in BS, as this seller wasn?t on VAF. We talked for 30 min about his plane in AZ, his reason for building it and his reason for selling. I asked for logbook pictures and current photos, as usual. He asked me about my family, where I lived and why I wanted a -7. He is a retired dentist who got his A&P on the side after working on a lot of airplanes over the years with friends. The aircraft/engine combo was exactly what I wanted and it was built light. Already too good to be true.

I had a chance to ferry a Cub that month which coincidentally allowed me to stop in and take a look at the aircraft. The week prior he?d completed the condition inspection and sent me pictures of every part of the process, to include compression readings and all SB compliance. The plane was exactly as described when I arrived. I cut the oil filter, looked inside and under panels, all was in order.

We did a thorough preflight and took it up for a test flight to verify the numbers and confirm everything was in working order. It surpassed my expectations. We put the plane in the hangar and went to lunch to talk about how I could make it mine. I already had a price in mind that I was willing to pay, trying my best to keep emotions out of it. We ate and he answered my questions regarding his build decisions. I asked him what he would consider a fair price for his pride and joy. By the stories he was telling I could sense that he didn?t want to part with his baby, but he answered me with a straight face. I couldn?t believe he wasn?t over inflating his asking price and I told him that I would buy it, his price was very fair. I gave him $10,000 down and we filled out the paperwork for the insurance company, an AOPA purchase agreement and set up the wire transfer for two weeks later since he and his wife were departing on a vacation the next day. I ferried the Cub and returned the evening prior to my departure. We loaded the plane for my AZ to SC flight the next morning with plans, spare parts, logs, receipts and logs. We went to dinner to talk and enjoy the Fall air, then he picked me up in the morning, took me to the airport and opened the hangar. It took two hours at the hangar before I closed the canopy and started up. He was leaning on the canopy rail telling more stories, not wanting to let go. I enjoyed it. These planes become part of a person.

I started the engine and waved ?see you later? as I taxied out, he may have had a tear in his eye as I departed. After warming the oil and doing the requisite checks deliberately I departed for a Marble Canyon detour and short cross country home in my new-to-me time machine.

Lessons I live by:
1. Don?t buy out of fear of losing the deal.
2. Go with your gut, but get a second opinion, even if it?s by pictures over email.
3. Patience yields success. Price. Components and even paint. Your plane is out there.
4. Now I can build without being in a rush, involve my wife and kids, and have fun too!

[74-07]

Exactly how it should go down. Pretty much the same process that I used to buy my latest 8. There were several 8s that I didn't buy, even after traveling to see them, but I always, always try to make a friend in the process. I've been in aviation all of my life both professionally and privately. It's a very, very, very small circle. Jerks get marked and known throughout the community. Be nice, enjoy the process but please be civil.