Buyer?s Etiquette

[kbalch]

Originally Posted by rocketman1988

Yes I keep track. Here is a question for you. So let?s say you need some AN426-3-3.5 rivets. There are approximately 5618 rivets per pound and you buy 1/8 of a pound, or about 702. Of those, you use 56. Do you calculate the tax on those 56 rivets and add it to the aircraft price while putting the rest in ?inventory?? Or do you just add the total tax on all 702 rivets to the aircraft cost?

You will no doubt say that this is a trivial example, and it is, however, in a project the size of these aircraft, adding 12.5 times the tax to the aircraft value (total tax on 1/8 lb versus 56) can add a substantial amount of tax in the end. The other side of that coin is not adding anything which is fraud.

I think most folks estimate the value at the end of the build based on approximate values along the way...

Fair question (no example too trivial for me, but I'm notoriously meticulous (my wife would probably say "anal")).

I would note the entire sum spent on the rivet purchase for my records and submit that for tax at the appropriate time. I know that I'm shorting myself a bit, but I long ago decided to err on that side rather than guesstimating the other way.

[kbalch]

Originally Posted by f1rocket

So since we are talking buyers etiquette here, let me pass this example by you and tell me what you would do. This happened to me on the sale of my RV12 and I still feel bad about it.

Buyer one calls and is very interested in the airplane. We talk several times and after about a week, he makes plans to fly commercially into my home state to look over the airplane. He never talks about price with me and never offers to make a deposit and I didn?t ask for one either. Trip is planned for next week.

Next day, buyer two calls. I said I have someone interested and he?s coming in next week to look at the airplane. Buyer two offers me full price and is willing to wire me a $5k deposit and says he will be there tomorrow to inspect the airplane and sign the paperwork.

What do you do???

Here?s what I did. I let buyer two come inspect the airplane and closed the deal. I then called buyer one to tell him the airplane was sold. He was very upset and I felt bad (and still do). He was a really nice guy.

Here?s my reasoning. With no deposit, I had no way of knowing whether buyer one would show up or if he did, buy the airplane. However, if I would have asked for a deposit, buyer one probably would have sent me one. I?ve never been able to figure out if it was his fault for not putting a deposit down or my fault for not asking him for one.

Your thoughts?

I'd probably have told Buyer 2 that he's second in the queue and that I felt obligated to at least offer Buyer 1 the opportunity to match his offer. Then call Buyer 1 and describe the situation. If Buyer 1 will match the offer and immediately submit the same deposit, then the plane is his. If not, then thank him for his time and let Buyer 2 proceed.

[kbalch]

Originally Posted by Timberwolf

My last 4 airplanes have all been purchased sight unseen. Most by asking what do you have to have for it?

When acting as a buyer, while I'll never ask the "what's the least you'll take for it" question, I always ask, in one form or another, "since nothing's perfect, what's wrong with it?" Sometimes I'll ask, were the owner to keep it, what are the next three things he'd be looking to address/fix.

Those questions nearly always elicit some honest conversation and help me to arrive at a fair (to me, anyway) offer.

[kbalch]

Originally Posted by WingsOnWheels

As far as I sm concerned we had a deal, a verbal handshake. I am a person of my word, and I don't respect those that are not. I have been on the other side of the situation and turned down higher offers since I had already made a commitment.

I'm with you 100%. I had a similar situation about five years back where I'd accepted an offer from a friend for a very nice Colt Python and gave him a month to get the funds together. About halfway through that period, another guy offered me nearly 25% over the amount I'd agreed to accept from my friend and I initially told him that I needed to pass. My friend couldn't match the offer (no need for him to do so since we'd already agreed on a price) and wouldn't let me take the loss; he insisted that I sell it to the other guy. I did, but gave my friend a good-sized gift card to the Capital Grille in appreciation.

[kbalch]

Originally Posted by meloosifah

If I have $50k to spend and you have a $60k asking price, rather than waste time why not ask if you are negotiable? I only have $50k - is there any possibility whatsoever?

Sure, if you only have $50K, then be upfront, say exactly that, and ask if there's any possibility. I'd be fine with that as a seller. Simply asking, however, if a seller is negotiable (in the blind, as it were), is asking him to undercut himself without even an offer on the table. I'd tell that buyer that I don't play games or overstate my asking prices and that my bottom-line price is the advertised figure.

[RV Jerry]

How about sellers etiquette, the person that sends old pictures , misrepresents overall condition, only to find out after spending travel time and money.

[WingsOnWheels]

As a seller I would be ok with someone asking how how negotiable I am vs "What's your bottom dollar". Those are two entirely different questions in my mind. The first is just asking if the price is firm, then second is trying to make me negotiate against myself.

[Canadian_JOY]

Originally Posted by RV Jerry

How about sellers etiquette, the person that sends old pictures , misrepresents overall condition, only to find out after spending travel time and money.

Don't even go there!

I've been in the position of trying to sell an airplane that's largely painted white in color. Of course in this part of the world we have snow, lots of snow. White airplanes don't show up well against a snow background. Plus winter light typically is pretty poor for photography unless one gets one of those fairly rare clear blue sky days where it's frigid but at least sunny.

I've had one potential buyer tell me that my pictures, taken late in the autumn, weren't current enough to merit him driving 1.5 hours to come see the airplane. Instead he wanted me to go to the hangar on a crappy, grey day, shovel the snow from in front of the hangar, haul the airplane out and take new pictures with the date emblazoned on them to satisfy his need for current photos. No thanks, life is too short for that.

[sailvi767]

I don?t have much experience selling aircraft however I have bought and sold a lot of sports cars as a hobby. I had one car that was perfect. 12,000 miles and not a scratch on it. Book value was a well established 28,000. I listed the car for 28,500 since it was a 1% car condition wise. First buyer showed up and did a long test drive which was a bit more aggressive than my liking. Told him it was time to head back to end it. He offered me 19,000 cash. I said no thanks. He said aren?t you going to make a counter offer. I said I had no counter to 19,000. He said you always counter so I said ok, 29,000. He said that?s ridiculous since I was asking 28,500. I said no more ridiculous than your offer goodbye.
Second buyer showed up, looked at the condition of the car and service records and wrote a check for 28,500 without even a test drive!
George

[rocketman1988]

"Fair question (no example too trivial for me, but I'm notoriously meticulous (my wife would probably say "anal")).

I would note the entire sum spent on the rivet purchase for my records and submit that for tax at the appropriate time. I know that I'm shorting myself a bit, but I long ago decided to err on that side rather than guesstimating the other way."

Fair enough. I estimate because I have a virtual hardware store in my workshop; I use the AN hardware , etc. on other aircraft...including some other builders...you know, those guys working on their project on a Sunday and find that they are short a bolt or a few rivets...

Not to mention it is usually cheaper to buy, for example, a package of 100 washers or nuts. You get a discount and the shipping remains the same...