F4 Rocket Lite

[Walt]

I've been looking at building the F1 for a while but just can't justify the $ at the moement. However I'd be very interested in an F4 slow-build with Evo wing and O390 or 400!!

[mark manda]

Wait until you can't see anything(over the nose) and wonder what you traded sideways for.

[patterson]

It's great to see some excitement on this! I wanted to relate that a year or so ago, when I spoke to Mark about the Lite version of the F1, he felt it could work. But, he felt the Evo wing was too suseptable to an aft CG if it didn't have the weight (and horsepower) on the nose. I don't recall all the details of what he said, but I for one still would want the EVO....and somehow work out the weight/CG issues.

There are some problems in that the Evo is quick-built, and I believe that is necessary....not sure really. Again, I am far more interested personally if we can get it EVO'd. Stalls at 50 mph, top speed is around 240 mph. Those are Dave Anders' type of numbers (but probably only 15-1800 ft per minute climb). For me, if I spend 2 minutes longer climbing and 2 hours screaming toward my destination, then fly 65-70 MPH on final....that would be the ultimate machine.

One solution I believe may solve the HP and perhaps the CG issues is a 460 pound Mistral rotary G-230-TS. Fuel burn would be close in cost (auto fuel), up to 210 HP continuous, the ability to go very high and get more power at altitude than most other engines available. Fuel burn may even be less overall in cost, especially at 15000 feet. Unproven as yet, but exciting....

Ron
RV-4

[Walt]

Originally Posted by mark manda

Wait until you can't see anything(over the nose) and wonder what you traded sideways for.

That would take care of the CG problem and keep the wifey happy!

[RVAddict]

AWWW MAN!!!!
Now you went and ruined a perfectly good airplane! (side by side )
Just kidding (sort of)

As I understand it, the F4 would be exactly or allmost exactly the same kit as the F1. But with a smaller engine... A side by side would have to be a clean sheet design. Right??

[RVAddict]

Originally Posted by mark manda

Wait until you can't see anything(over the nose) and wonder what you traded sideways for.

I don't understand what you are saying. Could you elaborate for this dummy please!?!?

[f1rocket]

Originally Posted by mark manda

Wait until you can't see anything(over the nose) and wonder what you traded sideways for.

As a person who has built and flown both a F1 and many RVs, I can say with exacting certainty that the visibility is nearly the same, and it most definitely is not a sideways trade. I don't know what your experience with Rockets is, but I've not met one person who would go back to an RV after having one. In fact, most Rocket builders/fliers are FORMER RV owners.

As far as the F4 goes, I would not hold out any hope that it can be made to work with the EVO wing. I think there are two primary reasons why it won't work. One, the EVO is very heavy and I can't see how you can get the CG in range without changing the airframe significantly, which I know Mark doesn't want to do. Two, the EVO is a complicated wing to build and would probably need to come from the factory pre-built as it does today. That leads to cost. The EVO, having to be built by the factory, will probably price most folks out of the market the way the F1 has, thus defeating the purpose of producing the F4.

I think the concept is great and hope Mark is successful in putting something together. He's a great guy to work with, very supportive.

[F1Boss]

Hi Fellas:

To reduce some of the speculation,, yes, I'm working on a 4 cyl version, to be called the F4. The base version will be delivered with fewer 'options' in comparison to the F1 -- all this TBD.

The F4 will only be sold as the Sport wing -- not the Evo.

The Evo wing is shifted fwd on the fuse a bit to reduce the heavy elevator feel, and this shift has allowed us to install an even BIGGER engine for those who have a bad case of horsepower desire: TCM IO550 (310HP). It still won't be enough...but this fwd shift of the wing eliminates the Evo wing as an F4 option.

One of our customers came up with an elev bellcrank mod which also reduced the heavy elevator feeling, and this has been added to all new production kits, both Sport wing and Evo.

The F4 will be sold as a parts-only kit with steel gear legs, with options available for pre-built sub-assemblies and Ti legs, and even a full QB kit (this will cost the same as an F1 Sport wing kit). The engine mount will be built to keep the prop disc in the same location as the F1 has it, so it will look very similiar. Gross weight will remain the same, so the usable load could go up by 125LBS or so, but where would you put this much weight?

Getting this project thru R&D should be fairly easy -- I'm thinking we will need to develop only the mount and fwd battery box, and the steel legs, and we're on our way. Then again, past experience would suggest that this attitude is extremely optimistic.

So, how much will it cost? Due to the reduced assembly processes involved, it should be very reasonable. I know what I WANT it to cost, but we still have to get all the beans to the beancounters, and then the final costs will then be available. I hope to have all the data crunched in time for the Southwest Regional Fly-in at Hondo TX on 1 June.

I hope this answers some of your questions -- if you have further questions or suggestions, email me off-list please. f1boss (at) gmail.com

Carry on!
Mark

[John_RV4]

I guess I'm the only one. But I would prefer the RV wing to the EVO. I'm not trying to wring the last few mph out of the plane and (from what I've read) the RV wing is much more pitch stable. I'd be inclined to stick with it.

Mark should really sit down and run the performance numbers on the airframe with various powerplants. The performance should equal or exceed the RV8. I think if it doesn't, the potential market would evaporate quickly.

John

[mark manda]

I based my statement on the remarks from a ret. Lt. col. who owned a six, built a 4 and built and is flying a HR-2.

sideways-- same powerplant as a RV.

I have only ridden in this HR; maybe an F1 is narrower and shorter or I mean the F4.