F4 Rocket Lite

Aden Rich · #1 04-27-2007, 11:48 AM

Gents,
I know this is a RV forum but there is some Rocket people here too. I wrote a thread a long time ago about a Rocket Lite (4 cyl). Mark Fredricks and TeamRocket is thinking about making a go for it. It would be powered by a IO-360 (180 hp). He is trying to get the costs down to help with the people that like the looks of the Rocket but not the expensive 6 cylinder prices. I have had several people express their interest and Mark needs to know this before spending a lot of time and capital in offering a different engine for his kits. If you have any interest in a Rocket lite let me or him know. He can be contacted at TeamRocket.
The airplane would have similar performance as a RV-8 but with 52 gallon gas tanks and a 2000lb gross weight. It will make a very nice airplane and have the looks of the Rocket without the price tag of one. Thanks, Aden Rich.

N395V · #2 04-27-2007, 12:36 PM

I do not understand what the advantage of this plane would be relative to an RV 4, or an RV 8 fastback

I seriously doubt that there is enough of a market to justify the costs of the project. I personally would not want to fly my F1 fuselage with only 180HP out front.

Aden Rich · #3 04-27-2007, 01:17 PM

Milt,
There is several advantages over an RV-4. Fuel and room being the biggest. An RV-8 is a great airplane but it has it own set of issues. Mostly in the construction of the gear legs towers and access to it all. Several RV-8 builders have invented new curse words trying to get it all to come together. Again another gain would be more fuel and I personally like the looks of a Rocket against and RV-8. Not the an -8 looks bad, they are a good airplane. Plus you will not have the stall buffet issues that an -8 has. A 180hp Rocket would fly fine and would cost a lot less. I paid 41K to have my IO-540-C4B5 purchased, overhauled, and juiced to 325 hp. I don't care what anyone says 540's just cost more. The cat is out of the bad and RV-10's have driven up the price and cores are more expensive and harder to find. I don't want to sound negative but I have had so many people say that 540's are not as expensive as I think until I show them all the receipts for all of the work done on the engine. Granted you can always throttle back and go the same speed as a RV but upfront cost I've paid 20K more than the 180hp. Plus there is just more products for that engine than the the 540. There is plenums, exhausts systems, ignitions, and parts for that engine that there is not for the 540. I think in the long run that a 180hp would be less expensive and just as fun. I also think the handling wouldn't be as nose heavy as a Rocket is. My dad has has -3's,-4's, -6's and a Rocket and he liked the handling of the smaller engine -3 and -4's. He does like the room of the Rocket however which is why he sold his 4 and built one. It also offers a different look for RV-8 customers. There has been a lot of people that have expressed their interests. Thanks for the input. Aden Rich.

Jamie · #4 04-27-2007, 01:39 PM

Excuse my ignorance, but why do people find the RV-8 stall buffeting to be an 'issue'. It seems like a darn good feature to me.

f1rocket · #5 04-27-2007, 01:55 PM

I can see this thread creating some "interesting" posts.

Just my quick $.02, I think it's the longer nose that helps to create the look. Not sure how far out front Mark would hang a 4-banger, but it might affect the looks some.

Aden Rich · #6 04-27-2007, 07:02 PM

He plans on using the same cowling and having the prop in the same place. So the engine will hang out a bit. The overall looks will be the same. I've had lengthy conversations with him about cutting some of the gear leg length off so it doesn't sit so high. But that is still out for now. This is not to bash on the RV-8 which is a good airplane. It is just another airplane for those that "prefer" the looks of a Rocket and can come in at a price similar to an RV-8. Thanks, Aden Rich.

N62XS · #7 04-27-2007, 07:38 PM

Just an observation. Every Rocket I saw turn off the paved taxiway on to the grass parking area at SNF looked like it was about to break both main gear legs. They appeared to wobble and shake rather violently immedaitely after turning off and continued to shake, too muck, in my lay opinion, until parking. My questions are is this wobble appearent in the cockpit, has anyone else observd this and have any of the gear broke under these conditions?

Norman CYYJ · #8 04-27-2007, 07:52 PM

The solid titanium legs don't transmit the wobble into the cockpit and I haven't heard of any breaking yet.

Aden Rich · #9 04-27-2007, 08:08 PM

They do shake I'll give you that. I haven't heard of one coming off. Some people have cut theirs down a bit to get rid of the bending and make them stiffer. The big reason for using steel is to reduce costs. The titanium gears legs are now about 3200.00 alone for a set. A steel gear can be made for the 4 cyl model since it doesn't have to support the weight and save big bucks. All the F4 is intended to do is give you Rocket looks on RV prices.

patterson · #10 04-27-2007, 08:08 PM

I actually spoke to Mark Fredrick last year about his offering a "Rocket Lite". I have a -4 and although I love it, it has serious limitations that a Rocket Lite would likely address very well.

Oh....and I don't really like the overall look of the -8, and definately don't apreciate the rudder pedal arrangement....just my preference.

Today I flew 900 miles round trip with a friend in the back. He was not very comfortable. I too feel somewhat "stuck" in the front seat and can't move around much at all. The other, more serious issue for me is the rear CG with anyone over 165 pounds or so. If they bring luggage, we are ouside the comfort range of the airplane and the tail will often stall before the wing on landing....not fun. The CG is technically well inside the envelope, but the plane is a different animal with an aft CG. Extra speed helps, but I fly out of a short field and even 5mph costs me 500 feet of runway.

All of the above is why I asked mark about the Lite, and planned an angle valve 4 cylinder Lyc (200 HP I think).

Now, my real wish is to get the Lite with the EVO wing! From what I've read about the EVO, I'm impressed. This would require a motor mount that is far enough forward to get a good CG range on the airplane. If Mark makes that configuration available, I'm a buyer.

Ron
RV-4 slider - 190 hours since August!