Add To: Experimental Aircraft Rules

[luv2flypilot]

Thanks Boomer for the post about experimental aircraft rules. I am learning quit a bit on this site. I am new to the experimental airplane world and am looking forward to soon get in an RV and sell my slug of a Cessna.

I have a few questions about experimental airplane flight restrictions that maybe some people can help me with. I remember when I received my Pilot's Certificate and all the long studying for the written test reading that experimental airplanes are restricted from flight in populated areas, however I see them flying in to KHWD (Hayward Airport, Bay Area Calif.) quit often where I keep my Cessna 172. What kind of restrictions may I run into if I get an RV? Can I still fly up the coast line and call Nor Cal for a sqwauk code and get clearance to fly over the Golden Gate Bridge in San Francisco, which I due quit often?

[Mel]

Once you have flown off your flight test hours and are operating in Phase II, you flying freedom will be very much like a certificated aircraft with a few minor exceptions like informing ATC of the experimental nature of your aircraft. The "no operation over densely populated areas" is for phase I flight testing. During phase II, you may operate over densely populated area or in congested airspace if directed by ATC or you have sufficient altitude to effect a safe emergency landing in case of engine failure without hazard to persons or property on the ground.

[beattiema]

With the proper equipment, same stuff you would need in your 172, you can do the same things in an RV that you can do in your 172. VFR, IFR, Day, Night, mix and match. Even go into space, ala Burt Rutans SpaceShip One

[airguy]

Originally Posted by beattiema

With the proper equipment, same stuff you would need in your 172, you can do the same things in an RV that you can do in your 172. VFR, IFR, Day, Night, mix and match. Even go into space, ala Burt Rutans SpaceShip One

Yes, but you need nitrous - ala George!

[gasman]

Originally Posted by beattiema

With the proper equipment, same stuff you would need in your 172, you can do the same things in an RV that you can do in your 172. VFR, IFR, Day, Night, mix and match. Even go into space, ala Burt Rutans SpaceShip One

I don't think Rutan had 40 hours in space ship one and he might have gone beyond his test box before his 40 hours were up!

What do you think his restrictions were?

[AlexPeterson]

Originally Posted by luv2flypilot

SNIP I remember when I received my Pilot's Certificate and all the long studying for the written test reading that experimental airplanes are restricted from flight in populated areas, however I see them flying in to KHWD (Hayward Airport, Bay Area Calif.) quit often where I keep my Cessna 172. What kind of restrictions may I run into if I get an RV? Can I still fly up the coast line and call Nor Cal for a sqwauk code and get clearance to fly over the Golden Gate Bridge in San Francisco, which I due quit often?

There was, and may still be on the books, a restriction similar to what Luv wrote. A number of years ago - maybe 6 or 8? - a clarification was issued regarding experimentals and flights over populated areas for other than takeoff and landing. I don't remember the details.

I recall also that there was for some experimental types which were becoming numerous (RV, Glasair, etc.) the allowance that one could use "So-and-so tower, RV123KA, 10 east...", without saying "experimental". Others will brings facts to my recollection I'm sure.

[Mel]

Space Ship 1, N328KF, is not licensed as amateur-built. Therefore it did not have a 40 hr fly-off. It is registered as a research & development glider.

Regulations and your operating limitations still require that you inform ATC of the experimental nature of you aircraft when operating into or out of an airport with an operating control tower.

[pierre smith]

Originally Posted by beattiema

With the proper equipment, same stuff you would need in your 172, you can do the same things in an RV that you can do in your 172.

Negative.........you can do so much more, including attracting more of the fairer sex, whoopdedoops and get waaaay better gas mileage

Ain't it grand?

[gmcjetpilot]

Originally Posted by airguy

Yes, but you need nitrous - ala George!

ha ha ha I am never going to live it down.

I am not sure any one mentioned YOU CAN'T RENT THE PLANE OUT OR USE IT FOR HIRE OR COMMERCIAL OPERATIONS.

You can use it to fly your your self on a business trips (but not part of the business).

It CAN NOT be used or rented out for training of others, but you can get a waver to do transition training (of others for hire) if you're a CFI. Takes some special paper work (and if wise more insurance). You don't need any special wavier for YOU to get training in your own RV. Say you have no flight time and bought a flying RV and found a CFI to teach you, you could use the RV to get your rating. There is some uncertainty about finding a Flight Examiner if say you don't have full dual controls (like a RV4 or RV8).

You can fly over densely populated areas if you are taking off and landing and what Mel said.

[JHines]

Hi Folks,

First of all, sorry for dredging up this old thread. I have read several sources that essentially state (I'm paraphrasing here): "the operating limitations on amateur-built experimentals are not significantly different from those on certificated aircraft".

Now, here is how the relevant standard limitations read from Order 8130.2F CHG 3 (4/18/07):

(item 5): "Except for takeoffs and landings, this aircraft may not be operated over densely populated areas or in congested airways."

(item 6): "This aircraft is prohibited from operating in congested airways or over densely populated areas unless directed by air traffic control, or unless sufficient altitude is maintained to effect a safe emergency lading in the event of a power unit failure, without hazard to persons or property on the ground."

Now, if item 6 were the only Phase II limitation, I'd agree "it's basically the same as certificated." But it appears that item 5 applies for Phase I and II.

So my question is, do RVs get items 5 and 6 for Phase II? If so, it would seem quite stringent to comply with both items, i.e. pretty hard to operate anywhere near CLT. What am I missing here?

I am looking to build an RV as a IFR X-C spam can replacement, if these limitations prevent that I need a plan B.