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  #1  
Old 02-05-2019, 11:05 PM
mfleming's Avatar
mfleming mfleming is offline
 
Join Date: Sep 2016
Location: Joseph, Oregon
Posts: 799
Default Legally Heating a Hangar

So I purchased a hangar recently

One of the improvements I would like to do is install a fixed vented propane heater.

Because I will be renting the hangar out until I am ready to move my -7 project into the hangar I applied for a commercial lease. Oregon requires a commercial lease if ANY revenue is being made off of the hangar.

Anyway, while researching heaters I came across NFPA 409. This states that heaters must be at least 10' above the wing of the aircraft.

I might get the heater 10' above the wing of my -7 but the rule says 10' above any aircraft that can fit in the hangar (I'm paraphrasing). Not happening

I read all about portable heaters...I'm interested in the fixed variety.

So, Do I have to comply with this NFPA 409?
What is everyone else doing with hangars with lower ceilings and heat??


The top of my door is 12', the door opens to about 10' 8"... No way to meet the rules as far as I can see
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Michael Fleming
Joseph, OR
sagriver at icloud dot com

RV-7 Slider #74572
Started 11/2016
Empennage completed 11/2016 (sans fiberglass)
Ailerons and flaps completed 3/2017.
Wings completed 12/2017
Started on QB fuselage 01/2018
Sliding canopy mostly completed 10/2020
Wiring and Avionics harness completed 9/2/2021
FWF Started 9/3/2021

Donated for 2021 and so should you
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  #2  
Old 02-06-2019, 06:13 AM
Tooch Tooch is offline
 
Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: Amelia, Va
Posts: 314
Default Heater

I Think that restriction is for the radiant heaters or the big tube heaters. Here is the heater I installed in my hanger on the back wall.

https://www.northerntool.com/shop/to...7751_200577751
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  #3  
Old 02-06-2019, 07:24 AM
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robertahegy robertahegy is offline
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Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: East Troy, WI
Posts: 1,986
Default

Your hangar is pretty big. We have an 1800 sq. ft. hangar attached to our home. I went with a 125K BTU Reznor heater, much like Tooch's. You will need to run electric and gas lines to it and provide vent for exhaust. Our ceilings are 14 ft. high. and we mounted the heater in a corner to blow the warm air diagonally across the hangar. This kept the heater away from plane wings, so I don't think the 10 ft. rule is an issue.

These types of "Modine Style" heaters are very efficient. We heat are hangar to 45 degrees during Wisconsin winters and can quickly heat to 65 or more when needed. Minimal impact on our insulated hangar, gas usage wise.

Roberta
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  #4  
Old 02-06-2019, 08:41 AM
pulsar pulsar is offline
 
Join Date: Sep 2018
Location: NY
Posts: 35
Default Open vs. Closed

I?m not an expert in such things so be sure to verify my thoughts... but in reading the standard, section 5.12.2 requires open flame heaters to meet the 10? requirement of section 5.12.5. If you use a closed-flame heater, section 5.12.5 does not apply and you can install the heater below the 10? minimum. From what I understand, closed-flame heaters don?t use room air for combustion (they use outside air), so the explosion risk from fuel vapor is lower in the hangar... I assume that is the reasoning for the regs being written the way they are. I was reading the 2016 version of NFPA 409 if that makes a difference
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  #5  
Old 02-06-2019, 09:03 AM
rv7charlie rv7charlie is offline
 
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Pocahontas MS
Posts: 3,888
Default

If the rule is inflexible, you could do an end run around it by installing a 'packet' style central unit just outside the building. You don't need to run extensive ducting; just get the outlet and return through the wall or roof. One upside, if it's on the ground, is simpler maintenance in the future.
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  #6  
Old 02-06-2019, 09:56 AM
Ted RV8 Ted RV8 is offline
 
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Northern CA
Posts: 430
Default

Look into a mini split system.
Electric utilizing heat pump and inverter technology. Plus you get ac for summer. Initial cost is more and need 220 volt single phase power.
They are pretty efficient.
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  #7  
Old 02-06-2019, 11:18 AM
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JonJay JonJay is offline
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Battleground
Posts: 4,348
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ted RV8 View Post
Look into a mini split system.
Electric utilizing heat pump and inverter technology. Plus you get ac for summer. Initial cost is more and need 220 volt single phase power.
They are pretty efficient.
I have a 30k BTU mini split that keeps my 2500 sqft hangar at 60 degF.
If it is really cold, like it has been lately, it might dip down to 55.
Heat pumps work very well in our relatively mild NW climate. Very efficient. Might be less practice on your side of the range, but don’t overlook the option.

Regardless of the heater type, you typically will be required for work done in “commercial” space like this to be permitted in most jurisdictions. Your contractor will tylically pull the permits and then must meet code. If you want to go rouge and do it yourself, without permits, you run a liability risk, say your heater burns down your hangar, your renters plane, other hangars.... etc....
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Last edited by JonJay : 02-06-2019 at 11:21 AM.
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  #8  
Old 02-06-2019, 01:06 PM
mfleming's Avatar
mfleming mfleming is offline
 
Join Date: Sep 2016
Location: Joseph, Oregon
Posts: 799
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by robertahegy View Post
Your hangar is pretty big. We have an 1800 sq. ft. hangar attached to our home. I went with a 125K BTU Reznor heater, much like Tooch's. You will need to run electric and gas lines to it and provide vent for exhaust. Our ceilings are 14 ft. high. and we mounted the heater in a corner to blow the warm air diagonally across the hangar. This kept the heater away from plane wings, so I don't think the 10 ft. rule is an issue.

These types of "Modine Style" heaters are very efficient. We heat are hangar to 45 degrees during Wisconsin winters and can quickly heat to 65 or more when needed. Minimal impact on our insulated hangar, gas usage wise.

Roberta
This may be the way I go if I find out a closed flame heater is exempt from the 10' rule.

Quote:
Originally Posted by pulsar View Post
I?m not an expert in such things so be sure to verify my thoughts... but in reading the standard, section 5.12.2 requires open flame heaters to meet the 10? requirement of section 5.12.5. If you use a closed-flame heater, section 5.12.5 does not apply and you can install the heater below the 10? minimum. From what I understand, closed-flame heaters don?t use room air for combustion (they use outside air), so the explosion risk from fuel vapor is lower in the hangar... I assume that is the reasoning for the regs being written the way they are. I was reading the 2016 version of NFPA 409 if that makes a difference
I'm looking at the section on Class III hangars 8.3.* but the verbiage is identical to the Class II section your referring to.

I'm hoping you're correct that the 10' rule only applies to open flame heaters.

Quote:
Originally Posted by JonJay View Post
I have a 30k BTU mini split that keeps my 2500 sqft hangar at 60 degF.
If it is really cold, like it has been lately, it might dip down to 55.
Heat pumps work very well in our relatively mild NW climate. Very efficient. Might be less practice on your side of the range, but don?t overlook the option.

Regardless of the heater type, you typically will be required for work done in ?commercial? space like this to be permitted in most jurisdictions. Your contractor will tylically pull the permits and then must meet code. If you want to go rouge and do it yourself, without permits, you run a liability risk, say your heater burns down your hangar, your renters plane, other hangars.... etc....
10-4 on following the rules!

I'm hoping to install an infrared radiant heater. I'm not sure if the mini split heaters would work in this high altitude cold climate I live in here in Joseph, OR.
__________________
Michael Fleming
Joseph, OR
sagriver at icloud dot com

RV-7 Slider #74572
Started 11/2016
Empennage completed 11/2016 (sans fiberglass)
Ailerons and flaps completed 3/2017.
Wings completed 12/2017
Started on QB fuselage 01/2018
Sliding canopy mostly completed 10/2020
Wiring and Avionics harness completed 9/2/2021
FWF Started 9/3/2021

Donated for 2021 and so should you
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  #9  
Old 02-06-2019, 08:18 PM
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Caummisar Caummisar is offline
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Idaho Falls, ID
Posts: 142
Default Consensus Standard

The NPFA Code is a consensus standard. Unless your local municipality has codified it locally, compliance is voluntary. Check with your local building code inspectors or FD to see if the NFPA code is binding. However, compliance is usually a good idea.
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Last edited by Caummisar : 02-06-2019 at 08:22 PM.
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  #10  
Old 02-06-2019, 10:18 PM
mfleming's Avatar
mfleming mfleming is offline
 
Join Date: Sep 2016
Location: Joseph, Oregon
Posts: 799
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Caummisar View Post
The NPFA Code is a consensus standard. Unless your local municipality has codified it locally, compliance is voluntary. Check with your local building code inspectors or FD to see if the NFPA code is binding. However, compliance is usually a good idea.
Thanks, this was the best answer yet

I just googled "is NFPA standard binding?". Apparently it's not

I'm pretty sure my locality has not codified the NFPA standard.

My main concern, besides the NFPA standard, is that my insurance company agrees the installation is proper. I bet they'll be happy if the installation meets local codes.
__________________
Michael Fleming
Joseph, OR
sagriver at icloud dot com

RV-7 Slider #74572
Started 11/2016
Empennage completed 11/2016 (sans fiberglass)
Ailerons and flaps completed 3/2017.
Wings completed 12/2017
Started on QB fuselage 01/2018
Sliding canopy mostly completed 10/2020
Wiring and Avionics harness completed 9/2/2021
FWF Started 9/3/2021

Donated for 2021 and so should you
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