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  #1  
Old 12-09-2018, 08:52 PM
pa38112 pa38112 is offline
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Clarksboro, NJ
Posts: 1,003
Default Question for Mel:

If loops, rolls, or spins are not documented during phase 1, does that mean they are not authorized in that plane? If so, can they be added later, and how?

Thanks!
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  #2  
Old 12-09-2018, 09:24 PM
Mel's Avatar
Mel Mel is offline
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Dallas area
Posts: 11,214
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by pa38112 View Post
If loops, rolls, or spins are not documented during phase 1, does that mean they are not authorized in that plane? If so, can they be added later, and how?
Thanks!
Any aerobatic maneuvers to be flown must first be tested within phase I. You may place the aircraft back into phase I for a minimum of 5 hours at any time.
This is listed in the operating limitations issued for the aircraft.
Depending on when you op lims were issued, you may have to have them amended. Earlier versions of op lims had the option to be issued to allow or not allow aerobatics. If you op lims state that aerobatics are prohibited, then you must have them amended.
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Mel Asberry, DAR since the last century. Over 1,000 certifications accomplished. Discount for Veterans, Law Enforcement, Fire Fighters.
EAA Flight Advisor/Tech Counselor, Friend of the RV-1
Recipient of Tony Bingelis Award and Wright Brothers Master Pilot Award
USAF Vet, High School E-LSA Project Mentor.
RV-6 Flying since 1993 (sold)
<rvmel(at)icloud.com>

Last edited by Mel : 12-09-2018 at 09:27 PM.
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  #3  
Old 12-09-2018, 11:06 PM
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SMRacer SMRacer is offline
 
Join Date: Feb 2012
Location: Leesburg, VA
Posts: 608
Default Not the original builder

Item 15: Aircraft prohibited from aerobatic flight.
Item 16: If the kit builder so states, this aircraft may conduct aerobatic flight...etc etc. It then give an example of the logbook entry necessary.

So, I am not the original builder, and the annotation was never made. I obviously do not have access to the original Phase I test area.

How do I get the airplane legal for aerobatics?
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  #4  
Old 12-10-2018, 07:45 AM
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Mel Mel is offline
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Dallas area
Posts: 11,214
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by SMRacer View Post
Item 15: Aircraft prohibited from aerobatic flight.
Item 16: If the kit builder so states, this aircraft may conduct aerobatic flight...etc etc. It then give an example of the logbook entry necessary.
So, I am not the original builder, and the annotation was never made. I obviously do not have access to the original Phase I test area.
How do I get the airplane legal for aerobatics?
I would recommend that you contact your local FSDO or a DAR and have your op lims amended. The new op lims will move the phase I test area to your local area and approve aerobatics.
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Mel Asberry, DAR since the last century. Over 1,000 certifications accomplished. Discount for Veterans, Law Enforcement, Fire Fighters.
EAA Flight Advisor/Tech Counselor, Friend of the RV-1
Recipient of Tony Bingelis Award and Wright Brothers Master Pilot Award
USAF Vet, High School E-LSA Project Mentor.
RV-6 Flying since 1993 (sold)
<rvmel(at)icloud.com>
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  #5  
Old 12-10-2018, 08:27 AM
sf3543 sf3543 is offline
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: San Antonio, TX
Posts: 1,093
Default Hmmm.....

When putting the plane back into phase 1 for additional testing, are you required to be in the originally specified phase 1 test area?
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  #6  
Old 12-10-2018, 08:28 AM
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Mel Mel is offline
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Dallas area
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sf3543 View Post
When putting the plane back into phase 1 for additional testing, are you required to be in the originally specified phase 1 test area?
No, but you must have authorization from the local FSDO.

"14. After incorporating a major change as described in § 21.93, the aircraft owner is required to reestablish compliance with § 91.319(b) and notify the geographically responsible FSDO of the location of the proposed test area. The aircraft owner must obtain concurrence from the FSDO as to the suitability of the proposed test area."

If you intend to use the original area, it gives the FSDO a "warm fuzzy" because they know that it has already been approved.
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Mel Asberry, DAR since the last century. Over 1,000 certifications accomplished. Discount for Veterans, Law Enforcement, Fire Fighters.
EAA Flight Advisor/Tech Counselor, Friend of the RV-1
Recipient of Tony Bingelis Award and Wright Brothers Master Pilot Award
USAF Vet, High School E-LSA Project Mentor.
RV-6 Flying since 1993 (sold)
<rvmel(at)icloud.com>

Last edited by Mel : 12-10-2018 at 08:32 AM.
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  #7  
Old 12-10-2018, 08:36 AM
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rolivi rolivi is offline
 
Join Date: Feb 2015
Location: Fort Worth
Posts: 558
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mel View Post
No, but you must have authorization from the local FSDO.
Does "Authorization" mean a re-write of the Op-Lims, or an amendment?

I ask because when I needed to go back to Phase 1 they issued new Op-Lims... and I should get my phase 1 area changed to my current local area "just in case."
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  #8  
Old 12-10-2018, 08:47 AM
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Mel Mel is offline
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Dallas area
Posts: 11,214
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by rolivi View Post
Does "Authorization" mean a re-write of the Op-Lims, or an amendment?

I ask because when I needed to go back to Phase 1 they issued new Op-Lims... and I should get my phase 1 area changed to my current local area "just in case."
No. Reissuance of op lims is not required. It just makes things simpler for the next time.
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Mel Asberry, DAR since the last century. Over 1,000 certifications accomplished. Discount for Veterans, Law Enforcement, Fire Fighters.
EAA Flight Advisor/Tech Counselor, Friend of the RV-1
Recipient of Tony Bingelis Award and Wright Brothers Master Pilot Award
USAF Vet, High School E-LSA Project Mentor.
RV-6 Flying since 1993 (sold)
<rvmel(at)icloud.com>
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