4 seats verses 2

[Chofrock]

Well, I have narrowed my choices down to either building an RV-8 or an RV-10.

Like all big decisions I like to compile a list of pros and cons of each choice. I would like you all to help me out with that.


I would like to think that the main use for my plane would be to take me an my wife and one (maybe two by the time I am finished building) children on trips. However, I have never owned a plane before, and I don't know if that would be actually be the typical way that my plane would be used. I have talked to several RV owner/builders and they seem to believe that most of their flying time is spent alone. If I was flying alone, 2 seats would be plenty.


The other main difference I can see is cost. The only way I could afford to build (and maybe even own) an RV-10 is if I found a partner to share the expense. I am not really looking for a building partner, but just a co-owner. I think it will be fairly easy to find someone like that.


I assume several others have looked at these two options (maybe a 7 instead of an 8) and I would like to hear the conclusions they came to.

[rv6ejguy]

If your wife really enjoys flying and kids are in the plans down the road, 2 seats won't work. If you will really be flying alone or with one other most of the time, a 7 or 8 is all you need. I'm flying a 6A now but building a -10 because I can't haul much stuff in the 6A for trips like bikes and skis. I don't think I will have more than two people in the -10 much but I like transportation when I land and I plan to do a lot of mountain biking with friends in the US.

All depends on your common mission and sometimes that is hard to know until you have a plane done and are using it. I'd say 75% of my flights in the 6A have 2 on board and it hauls enough if your significant other isn't really heavy or wants to take the proverbial kitchen sink along. No honey, you are only allowed 71 pounds today doesn't go over too well after a shopping spree!

[kentb]

Originally Posted by Chofrock

Well, I have narrowed my choices down to either building an RV-8 or an RV-10.

I would like to think that the main use for my plane would be to take me an my wife and one (maybe two by the time I am finished building) children on trips. However, I have never owned a plane before, and I don't know if that would be actually be the typical way that my plane would be used. I have talked to several RV owner/builders and they seem to believe that most of their flying time is spent alone. If I was flying alone, 2 seats would be plenty.

The -8 and -10 have two different missions and you said that your mission would be to travel.

I think that you should be trying to decide between a -9 and -10. Unless your thinking about acro.

Even if you don't have kids in the back of a -10 it would be nice to have the extra storage room. You could take bikes with you or all the baggage that my wife could think of.

Kent - happy with my -9

[ScottSchmidt]

I was in the same situation. I actually started an RV-8 tail then the RV-10 came out. I wanted the extra room to take friends flying, my mountain bike, ect. Most of the time when I fly now, it is just my wife and I and we have plenty of room to bring anything we want and the seats are so comfortable with plenty of leg room and room to stretch. My wife actually gets up and goes in the back if she has to use the "restroom" on long legs and we keep a small cooler back there for easy access to drinks and food.

I definately recommend the RV-10 over the RV-8 unless you have your heart set on aerobatics. I love acro, but decided that I really want an MX-2 for acro and the RV-10 for cross country. The speeds on the two planes are about the same but your fuel burn will be higher on the RV-10. But resale will be much better on the RV-10.

Either way your having fun!

[Phyrcooler]

Originally Posted by kentb

I think that you should be trying to decide between a -9 and -10. Unless your thinking about acro.

Even if you don't have kids in the back of a -10 it would be nice to have the extra storage room. You could take bikes with you or all the baggage that my wife could think of.

Kent - happy with my -9

Interestingly - I suggested to Van's yesterday that we need a "Stretch-9". I called it a "Tiger with a Stick" - but with RV performance and handling. Something smaller and less complicated than an RV-10. Designed around an O-360 for less cost. Maintain the slider or tip-up canopy, etc.

The -10 is a great aircraft - but a lot of us just need that occasional extra seat or more room for bike/gear, and can't justify the build time and expense she costs. (Don't tell me to rent a 172! I dream of the day that I never have to fly one of those trucks around! )

The RV-10 provides an experimental option comparable to all the high-performance singles out there. But the only kit out there designed to compete with the 172's/Tigers/Cherokee/Warrior etc. is the CH-640. I think that Van's could sell kits if produced that would cover the lower end of the 4-seat market. JMHO -

DJ

[OldAndBold]

When you make the decision, make sure you understand your wife's view of aviation. Mine is certain that I will die flying someday.

Right about when I had just gotten my PPL, I talked my wife into attending a 99's seminar for non-flying spouses of pilots. Much to my suprise, she stayed for the whole seminar (I was expecting her to call me half way though to take her home) and almost went flying with one of the pilots. She then spent two or three weeks carefully reading my Jeppesen book and was diligently asking questions. But then, she lost interest and eventually decided that flying was a risk that she as a mother could not justify.

Now, I *might* be able to talk her into a flight to avoid bigger risks - for example, a flight to Mackinac Island to avoid the ferry ride with the children. Or *maybe* to the Chicago area to avoid the horrid drive around the lake. But the point is that if I had invested in a four seat airplane, I would be flying by myself most of the time.

--John Babrick

[John Clark]

Originally Posted by Chofrock

The other main difference I can see is cost. The only way I could afford to build (and maybe even own) an RV-10 is if I found a partner to share the expense. I am not really looking for a building partner, but just a co-owner. I think it will be fairly easy to find someone like that.

There is another important cost factor that needs to be added to your "list." The real hourly cost of operation. I say "real" because a lot of people like to kid themselves about the cost of owning and operating an airplane. Every year I take all the costs both fixed (hangar, insurance, tax, and inspection) and the variable (fuel, oil, repairs other than inspection) total the amount and devide by the number of hours flown.

I't is your decision, but weigh the extra cost of the -10 against the real usefulness to you.

My personal experience is that although I have owned 2, 4, and 6 place airplanes, the usual load was 1 or 2.

John Clark
RV8 N18U
KSBA

[john kelley]

I am going to build a 7 primarily because I can't get the combination of speed, aerobatic, XC and TW anywhere else, no way to rent such a plane. I have 4 kids and I take them up one at a time in an old C-140 now. My wife still has not flown with me, she can't handle the thought, remote that it may be, of something happening to both of us . I can rent for the few times that I want to take more kids at once. When the kids are grown, and the plane is done I think my wife will be OK with flying and then I will only need two seats again.

[airguy]

My choice was the 9 vs the 10, for the same reasons everyone else is quoting. The vast majority of my current flying in spamcans is solo for business, and the budget is definitely a factor, so 9A it is. If I decide I just NEED four seat for the occasional odd mission, I can always rent a 182 or 210. If it becomes a habit I'll look at building a 10.

[gmcjetpilot]

Originally Posted by Chofrock

Well, I have narrowed my choices down to either building an RV-8 or an RV-10.

No one really can answer that for you except you. You really did not give any indication of your flying back ground, hours, ratings, planes owned if any. Aerobatics interest you. How many times have you flown more than 1 passenger. How much do you now fly 2 or 3 or more passengers, rarely, occasionally or all the time.

How much money do you have to spend on a plane? Don't answer that but the RV-10 will be more money of course.

Have you flown a RV-8?
Have you flown a RV-10?
Have you flown any RV?
Might be a good idea to do that.

Is the first plane you have built?

You can always rent a 4-place plane when you want to take a crowd up on local sight seeing flight.

Are you going to want to learn formation flying?
Do you want to get into and out of short strips?
Do you want to race of go fast (on less gas)?
Do you want to feed a IO540 engine (gas again)?

Both planes are marvelous, but the RV-10 is a departure from the original RV's for all the obvious and not so obvious reasons. The RV-8 (and this is a guess since I have not flown the RV-10 but from what I have read) will handle better and be lighter on the controls. The visibility in the RV-8 of course will be fantastic. The RV-10 more typical of a Piper.

If you are Piper/Cessna guy and like to just fly straight a level and cruise and take more than one person aloft at a time, than the RV-10 is what you want.

There is dreaming of what you think you will do with your plane and than there is what you really do. I find going up for local flights, taking off and landing with in say 50 miles and returning to base makes up 80% of my RV flying. Of that 1/2 of that is aerobatics, formation or dog fighting. The other 20% is cross country with RON's (remain overnight) away from home field. I would say 80% of my flying is solo. When flying a passenger, in my one seat, rarely do I wish I had room for a 2nd or 3rd passenger.