100LL Future and Engine Purchase Concerns

[rv6ejguy]

Will be interesting to see how this all shakes out. Shell has the size/ funding and existing network to make this happen more quickly IMO than the other players but hopefully Swift and GAMI will also be in here as alternative competition.

[robertahegy]

Interesting this debate is still going on. Fifteen years ago when I was making the decision on the engine and fuel system for my 7A everyone was worried then that 100LL was on it's way out. If there is a large enough market, someone will continue to produce it, or a reasonable substitute.

Roberta

[RV10inOz]

Shell developed a really cool new paint stripper. SWIFT won't start in Winter or if you brew it synthetically the components cost north of $12/gal before you get started. And it didn't work (not when my data source was current).

Neither is fungible with the existing avgas. At some point you need to have a changeover period and a long and lengthy one at that.

One fuel does tick all the boxes and does better in some areas than current 100LL., and it was never part of the fatal flawed PAFI project. Make of that what you will. And just because one company is huge and has large cash sources does not mean that they can or will solve the problem. They haven't.

[rv6ejguy]

Originally Posted by RV10inOz

Shell developed a really cool new paint stripper. SWIFT won't start in Winter or if you brew it synthetically the components cost north of $12/gal before you get started. And it didn't work (not when my data source was current).

Neither is fungible with the existing avgas. At some point you need to have a changeover period and a long and lengthy one at that.

One fuel does tick all the boxes and does better in some areas than current 100LL., and it was never part of the fatal flawed PAFI project. Make of that what you will. And just because one company is huge and has large cash sources does not mean that they can or will solve the problem. They haven't.

It will be a tough haul for any company without the size and financial/ refining/ distribution resources to do this no matter how good their formulation might be. That's a hard reality unless they sell the rights to someone like Shell- if Shell would buy.

It's one thing to come up with a recipe that ticks all the boxes, quite another to get this in world wide or at least country wide distribution.

There is at least one other US player developing UL avgas outside of PAFI, who few people know about. I was just talking to someone in that company last week and they have a very good formulation it sounds like.

[ColoRv]

Ahhh memories. There once was a time when this website didn?t exist. RV builders communicated via an email list where we either received one email containing all of the emails for the day or hundreds of emails spaced apart by seconds. It was great. Back when that list was an infant was the first time I heard someone say with certainty that Low Lead was going away shortly and we were all doomed.

I am still waiting....but I did finally stop holding my breath. So, until Hades freezes over and the seas of Low Lead dry up....I?ll keep destroying the environment with buckets of lead, bragging about my carbon footprint and whacking every baby seal I see on the head with a hammer.

[az_gila]

Originally Posted by RV8JD

Yes, but the difference now is that there is a growing number of mostly non-aviation folks who want all the lead out of all gasoline due to environmental concerns, and have sued to accomplish that goal.

Yes... there are rumblings in the UK about Innospec on the River Mersey -



Which is the only supplier of TEL - tetra ethyl lead, the lead bit of 100LL - in the free world.

https://www.petro-online.com/news/me...ol-legal/43931

Every time I go to Liverpool I look across the river to see that the plant is still there It was still there a year ago.

[grubbat]

Lead free racing fuel has been around for a while at Sunoco. Granted it?s high cost, but if I recall, it was something like 110 octane. If the stuff would work in AC, then I wonder what the cost would be if the supply chain was a larger?

[F1R]

Does anybody have the accurate records for the make up of 130 Octane gasoline that was used in the 1940's when Mustangs, Spits and other merlin powered AC used it?

[Mudfly]

Latest update (Sep 7, 2018) on the Piston Aviation Fuels Initiative (PAFI) from the FAA website.

FWIW: "...PAFI flight testing and some engine testing was halted, resulting in a delay in testing completion ? from December 2018 to mid-2020."

https://www.faa.gov/about/initiatives/avgas/

I'll continue to check the website daily for further updates .

[RV7A Flyer]

Originally Posted by F1R

Does anybody have the accurate records for the make up of 130 Octane gasoline that was used in the 1940's when Mustangs, Spits and other merlin powered AC used it?

Isn't it *still* used by the air racers?