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07-07-2018, 01:22 PM
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Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: Redlands, Ca.
Posts: 1,458
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AV8AZ
One can create a long list of most likely to kill/injure/damage with most likely at the top, second most likely as #2, and so on in descending order of risk. Whenever someone is focused on something like #274 on the list, it's clearly an axe to grind (some form of cognitive bias) OR else they've controlled or mitigated #1-273. It's never the latter.
A hot headed pilot is a greater risk to aviation safety than is a trained dog comfortable in its environment under direct supervision and control of it's owner with a history of only appropriate behavior.
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.....I couldn?t agree more! Good post. Thanks, Allan... 
__________________
Allan Nimmo
AntiSplatAero.com
Innovative Aircraft Safety
Products, Tools & ServicesInfo@AntiSplatAero.com Southern California (KREI)
RV-9A / Edge-540 
(909) 824-1020
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07-07-2018, 02:32 PM
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Join Date: Jul 2012
Location: n. wi
Posts: 777
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gee's, when i go to the airport it is at least as good as going to the bar and shooting the breeze, telling lies to each other etc. i think i would think twice about calling one of the ''old timers'' on something and giving an ultimatum. you may find you really have your space to yourself. it's supposed to be much more fun than that.
i have made a lot of buddies at the airport.
__________________
Bob Noffs
n. wi.
dakota hawk/jab 3300 built and flying. sold 6/18.getting serious about the 12. in the hangar now as of 10/15/19
RV-12 kit as of 9/13
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07-07-2018, 04:57 PM
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Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Bay Village, OH
Posts: 886
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Coming at this from the other angle....
I could not imagine the trauma of losing a dog due to my own negligence in not keeping him leashed in an active airport environment. The world is risky enough. The risk of real human injury on top of that makes me ask why?
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Rick
RV-9A N183RC/90432: tip-up, O320H2, Ellison, Dynon D180, CPi2, Sen GA, at KLPR
RV-8 83718, wing kit, tanks done, with a four year plus plan - on hold due to home move
2011-2020 VAF contributor
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07-07-2018, 04:59 PM
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Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Mojave
Posts: 4,652
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Statistical probability is entertaining to post, but it's amazing how fast #274 changes to #1 when it's in your face. I know plenty of "airport dogs" that have missing limbs, permanent deformities or significant psychological trauma as a result of a close brush with a propeller. As a long time dog lover and owner, I'll say if a prop is turning, the pooch needs to be secured.
period. Dot.
Airports are for airplanes, not fetch.
__________________
WARNING! Incorrect design and/or fabrication of aircraft and/or components may result in injury or death. Information presented in this post is based on my own experience - Reader has sole responsibility for determining accuracy or suitability for use.
Michael Robinson
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Harmon Rocket II -SDS EFI
RV-8 - SDS CPI
1940 Taylorcraft BL-65
1984 L39C
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07-08-2018, 11:36 AM
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Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: Collierville, TN (KFYE)
Posts: 1,433
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I chuckled reading all this angst about dogs. Heck, my airport has coyotes, a skunk, deer and foxes. As of yesterday, we had an animal trapper out to get the skunk. I hope he got it because I almost got sprayed by it a few weeks ago. We also had an airport cat, who worked hard keeping the mice under control. Nobody complained and everyone seemed to accept that animal presence at a country airport is just something you gotta look out for. We did have an airport dog, but the manager found a home for it. The dog gets all the bad press because it's ownership is directly connected to a known person, therefore that person must be bad. I think if you're going to be fair about it, you should hire someone to come out and shoot every non-human he can find, including the birds. They're a danger as well you know. A permanent position, Airport Hunter. By God, we'll keep this place sanitized. All of the foregoing in humor...
I think I would have just introduced myself to him, petted his dog, maybe throw the stick for him and then say "I'm about to fire up in a few minutes, might want to keep the dog leashed until I'm gone".
__________________
RV-8 #81077 Super Slow Build
Dynon Skyview HDX, Titan IOX-370, Dual P-Mags, AFP FM200A FI, Whirlwind 200RV CS Prop
First Flight 11/20/2016
www.marksrv8.com
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07-08-2018, 12:00 PM
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Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Mojave
Posts: 4,652
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I dont see "angst" in this thread, nor do I see dog owners as being "bad". What I do see is an opportunity for pilots to do what we are trained to do - and that's "manage risk". We can't do much about deer or hawks, but we can sure as heck control pets 100%. Just because a coyote is running free does not release the owner of a cherished Golden Retriever from responsibility.
Lets keep in mind that a propstrike with an errant coyote is significantly different than a propstrike with Fido chasing said coyote from a legal standpoint. One is an "accident" the other is "negligence".
Pets are an important part of our lives and I can tell you my last dogs (a 213 pound Mastiff and a 180 pound Great Dane) were part of my family, but I tried to never impose that level of familiarity/endearment on others. Pets are defined as "property" in this state, and my rights of enjoyment of my property end where I make someone else uncomfortable. An unleashed dog on an airport ramp is an "uncomfortable" situation for any reasonable pilot, so the only action is to ensure that the animal is 100% secured if aircraft ops are involved.
You may have the smartest dog on the planet - one who knows and can can comprehend the consequenses of a turning propeller, but No pet owner has a right to expect the same level of understanding of a pilot trying to navigate this powerful meat grinder in a confined area. Its a "do unto others..." situation. We have always owned huge beed dogs, and despite their sweet temperment, I was always cognizant of the fear some people would realize upon being near a "bear sized" animal. Responsible owners simply need to do the right thing and accomodate the comfort level of a reasonable society.
__________________
WARNING! Incorrect design and/or fabrication of aircraft and/or components may result in injury or death. Information presented in this post is based on my own experience - Reader has sole responsibility for determining accuracy or suitability for use.
Michael Robinson
______________
Harmon Rocket II -SDS EFI
RV-8 - SDS CPI
1940 Taylorcraft BL-65
1984 L39C
Last edited by Toobuilder : 07-08-2018 at 12:11 PM.
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07-08-2018, 06:26 PM
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Join Date: Mar 2017
Location: Oklahoma
Posts: 114
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mark Dickens
I chuckled reading all this angst about dogs. Heck, my airport has coyotes, a skunk, deer and foxes. As of yesterday, we had an animal trapper out to get the skunk. I hope he got it because I almost got sprayed by it a few weeks ago. We also had an airport cat, who worked hard keeping the mice under control. Nobody complained and everyone seemed to accept that animal presence at a country airport is just something you gotta look out for. We did have an airport dog, but the manager found a home for it. The dog gets all the bad press because it's ownership is directly connected to a known person, therefore that person must be bad. I think if you're going to be fair about it, you should hire someone to come out and shoot every non-human he can find, including the birds. They're a danger as well you know. A permanent position, Airport Hunter. By God, we'll keep this place sanitized. All of the foregoing in humor...
I think I would have just introduced myself to him, petted his dog, maybe throw the stick for him and then say "I'm about to fire up in a few minutes, might want to keep the dog leashed until I'm gone".
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To be fair, wild animals usually avoid humans, or at least ignore them. Domesticated animals often look at humans and see FRIEND! (or at least "staff," in the case of cats), and move toward them.
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07-09-2018, 07:18 AM
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Join Date: Jan 2015
Location: Oklahoma City, OK
Posts: 534
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Quote:
Originally Posted by OkieDave
To be fair, wild animals usually avoid humans, or at least ignore them. Domesticated animals often look at humans and see FRIEND! (or at least "staff," in the case of cats), and move toward them.
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Dave,
Since you?re an attorney give some free legal advice. What are the legal ramifications if an unleashed dog causes damage or personal injury at a public airport. Is there personal liability involved?
__________________
Jim Harris, ATP, T38, EC/KC-135A/E/R, 2008 RV7A, 2nd owner, N523RM (2015)
Superior XPIO-360, Hartzel CS prop, Aerotronics panel with Dual GRT Horizon WS, EIS, Garmin 340, 335 w/WAAS gps, Dual 430s (non-WAAS), TruTrak 385 A/P with auto-level, Electric trim, Tosten 6 button Military Grips, FlightBox wired to WS, Dynon D10A w/battery backup, 406 MHz ELT. Custom Interior, New TS Flightline hoses, Great POH!
Retired - Living the dream - going broke!
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07-09-2018, 09:25 AM
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Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: Redlands, Ca.
Posts: 1,458
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Wow!
?.. This is really getting BIG!
__________________
Allan Nimmo
AntiSplatAero.com
Innovative Aircraft Safety
Products, Tools & ServicesInfo@AntiSplatAero.com Southern California (KREI)
RV-9A / Edge-540 
(909) 824-1020
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07-09-2018, 11:00 AM
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Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: Sunman, IN
Posts: 2,189
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Yes
Yes, let?s litigate the **** out of everything!
I have been based at several airports, and all had dogs.
Never had a problem and everyone just got along, was respectful, and accountable...
...but hey, let?s bring the lawyers in...that?s bound to make it better...🤨
__________________
Bob
Aerospace Engineer '88
RV-10
Structure - 90% Done
Cabin Top - Aaarrghhh...
EFII System 32 - Done
297 HP Barrett Hung
ShowPlanes Cowl with Skybolts Fitted - Beautiful
Wiring...
Dues+ Paid 2019,...Thanks DR+
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