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06-30-2018, 02:37 PM
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Join Date: Jun 2013
Location: Jacksonville, FL
Posts: 132
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Toolbuilder, I am referring to an internally regulated alternator with the ability to shut the field. I guess it would more correctly be called a two wire alternator, but some people still refer to them as one wire. I just picked up a 10SI alternator, but the diameter is a bit too large. some of the others that people have given links to look like they might be a bit big also, but can't really find dimensions. Auto parts stores are not much help so I might wind up having to go to an alternator shop with somebody that knows more than just make and model of car and tell them I need this mounting style, this max diameter, V belt pulley, etc. If those types of alternator shops still exist...
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06-30-2018, 08:22 PM
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Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Mojave
Posts: 4,652
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The Gm 10 SI is a big sucker... The little Geo/samuri ND's are small but pack a pretty big punch. They were standard Vans kit fare for years
__________________
WARNING! Incorrect design and/or fabrication of aircraft and/or components may result in injury or death. Information presented in this post is based on my own experience - Reader has sole responsibility for determining accuracy or suitability for use.
Michael Robinson
______________
Harmon Rocket II -SDS EFI
RV-8 - SDS CPI
1940 Taylorcraft BL-65
1984 L39C
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06-30-2018, 09:46 PM
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Join Date: May 2006
Location: Pocahontas MS
Posts: 3,884
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Quote:
Originally Posted by brian257
Toolbuilder, I am referring to an internally regulated alternator with the ability to shut the field. I guess it would more correctly be called a two wire alternator, but some people still refer to them as one wire. I just picked up a 10SI alternator, but the diameter is a bit too large. some of the others that people have given links to look like they might be a bit big also, but can't really find dimensions. Auto parts stores are not much help so I might wind up having to go to an alternator shop with somebody that knows more than just make and model of car and tell them I need this mounting style, this max diameter, V belt pulley, etc. If those types of alternator shops still exist...
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I've used various 1-wire alts on homebuilts for about 30 years. Obviously, I like them. But...If you think you can use that control terminal to protect against damage to avionics in an overvoltage event, be aware that it's not a reliable technique. All the IR alts I've seen use ground-side regulation. One end of the field is tied to the B lead, and the other to the regulator. So if the power transistor that ties the field to ground shorts out, the control terminal no longer has control. I can send you a procedure someone wrote up showing how to modify the alt to achieve positive control. It does require both soldering and surgical skills. :-)
If I can remember, I'll measure one of the 55A alts that I linked earlier, so you'll have an idea about space needed. I can tell you that they fit a 320 in an RV-4 cowl, which is pretty tight.
Charlie
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06-30-2018, 10:22 PM
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Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Queen Creek AZ
Posts: 541
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Nippon Denso 100211-1680
I used this 40 Amp alternator on my RV for 11 years with no problems. Be sure to get the real ND and not a Chinese knock-off version. I asked Bob Knuckolls about using an automotive unit and he agreed there is some slight risk, but not very much at all. I ran mine as purchased with the internal regulator and never had a problem. YMMV however. I did have a larger pully put on to reduce the RPMs a bit to make it last longer.
I also have the paperwork from Bob Knuckolls on how to rewire the internal regulator for external control and safety. Can't figure out how to post it here, but email me and I'll send you a copy…. n eight zee dee a ya h oo. c
__________________
Ron
RV-4 N8ZD Sold
Phat -4 under construction
regular VAF donor despite being exempt
Last edited by patterson : 06-30-2018 at 10:26 PM.
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07-01-2018, 06:58 AM
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Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Central IL
Posts: 5,516
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Quote:
Originally Posted by patterson
I used this 40 Amp alternator on my RV for 11 years with no problems. Be sure to get the real ND and not a Chinese knock-off version. I asked Bob Knuckolls about using an automotive unit and he agreed there is some slight risk, but not very much at all. I ran mine as purchased with the internal regulator and never had a problem. YMMV however. I did have a larger pully put on to reduce the RPMs a bit to make it last longer.
I also have the paperwork from Bob Knuckolls on how to rewire the internal regulator for external control and safety. Can't figure out how to post it here, but email me and I'll send you a copy…. n eight zee dee a ya h oo. c
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http://www.ecae.com/alt1.html
The second one down, this was recommended by Ross a while back. The ultra super mini. You might call the company and see if they have the two wire in a 14 volt model. It is the mini frame size like the plane power experimental 60 amp unit. It appears it is a new from the factory, which means better bearings, balance brushes, and life.
It looks like the 2026 might be the correct two wire, 14v unit. Post your findings, if you pursue this one. I might just call them my self. :-)
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Bill
RV-7
Lord Kelvin:
“I often say that when you can measure what you are speaking about,
and express it in numbers, you know something about it; but when you
cannot measure it, when you cannot express it in numbers, your knowledge
is of a meager and unsatisfactory kind.”
Last edited by BillL : 07-01-2018 at 07:13 AM.
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07-01-2018, 07:18 AM
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Join Date: May 2006
Location: Pocahontas MS
Posts: 3,884
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The one Bill linked is the same frame as the Suzuki model I mentioned earlier. Note that the frame above it, with an external fan, is only slightly larger and works fine, but the external fan is quite adept at sawing a hole in a -4's cowl....
And what I wrote earlier about control applies to that model, too. You can control it with the control terminal, *unless the regulator fails*. If the regulator fails, all bets are off on being able to shut it down with the control terminal. For positive control in the event of regulator failure, you still need to mod it, or use an external contactor to open the B-lead.
Charlie
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07-01-2018, 10:09 AM
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Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Calgary, Canada
Posts: 5,766
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Quote:
Originally Posted by patterson
I used this 40 Amp alternator on my RV for 11 years with no problems. Be sure to get the real ND and not a Chinese knock-off version.
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Agreed. This is the key to reliability. In my 35 years experience with these units and polling some of my other friends in the automotive repair business with many thousands of customers running cars with OEM Denso IR alternators, they really don't have many overvoltage failures. Brushes wear out and bearings at very high mileage. That's about it.
You often do and will have problems as soon as some rebuild shop removes the OEM Denso parts (especially the regulator) and replaces them with junk off-shore parts. It's not really a ND piece any more at that point.
The ND engineers have invested decades and millions of dollars into perfecting the reliability of their designs and that work has shown to pay off with excellent reliability in the real world with billions of reliable hours collectively. Adding on third party parts to these designs almost certainly will impact that proven reliability record.
OV protection is prudent, especially with lithium batteries but do it externally to the alternator by breaking the battery charging connection.
Last edited by rv6ejguy : 07-01-2018 at 11:00 AM.
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07-01-2018, 10:55 AM
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Join Date: Dec 2005
Posts: 182
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ND Alternator
I agree with the reliability of the ND and other alternators, but everyone should be aware that they can and will fail. I did not have overvoltage protection external to the ND alternator that Van's supplied with my kit. At about 300 hours, it went overvoltage to 17.5 volts. By the time I got everything shut off and back on the ground, it had murdered my Odyssey battery, but luckily that was it. Whatever alternator you use, be sure you have the overvoltage protection somewhere in the circuit.
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07-01-2018, 11:07 AM
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Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Calgary, Canada
Posts: 5,766
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Terry Lutz
I agree with the reliability of the ND and other alternators, but everyone should be aware that they can and will fail. I did not have overvoltage protection external to the ND alternator that Van's supplied with my kit. At about 300 hours, it went overvoltage to 17.5 volts. By the time I got everything shut off and back on the ground, it had murdered my Odyssey battery, but luckily that was it. Whatever alternator you use, be sure you have the overvoltage protection somewhere in the circuit.
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OEM ND or Plane Power like they show for the RV14 on the Van's site? http://vansaircraft.com/cgi-bin/stor...alternator-kit
Last edited by rv6ejguy : 07-01-2018 at 11:10 AM.
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07-01-2018, 03:32 PM
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Join Date: Dec 2005
Posts: 182
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It was an OEM ND.
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