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  #21  
Old 03-15-2020, 12:36 PM
mturnerb mturnerb is offline
 
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Location: Ponte Vedra, FL
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BobbyLucas View Post
Well, I just got to this part of the 12iS fuse build, and just let me say, #&@$! Cherry Max rivets.

Like others, this is what I got in return for my lubrication efforts:


Switching from the pneumatic to a slow manual pull helped a little, but still not perfect.

Is there any reason we can't finish setting the ^%$! things with a squeezer? For that matter, can't we just use squeezed rivets in the first place?

Here's what they look like after a good post-pop squeeze, back and front. Are they good, or do they need replaced?
The good news is that the ones that aren't fully set are trivially easy to remove - you can easily drive out the mandrel and then drill the center of the rivet to remove the manufactured head/punch out shaft. Trying to get a fully set one out teaches you very quickly WHY they are stronger than regular rivets.
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  #22  
Old 03-15-2020, 01:00 PM
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BobbyLucas BobbyLucas is offline
 
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Location: Belleville, MI
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Originally Posted by mturnerb View Post
The good news is that the ones that aren't fully set are trivially easy to remove - you can easily drive out the mandrel and then drill the center of the rivet to remove the manufactured head/punch out shaft. Trying to get a fully set one out teaches you very quickly WHY they are stronger than regular rivets.
Well the ones in the bottom row weren't supposed to be there, which I realized after running short of rivets lol, so I will learn right now just how much pain I'm in store for.
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RV-12is Empennage Kit, Fuse Kit, #121228
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  #23  
Old 03-15-2020, 01:11 PM
mturnerb mturnerb is offline
 
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Originally Posted by BobbyLucas View Post
Well the ones in the bottom row weren't supposed to be there, which I realized after running short of rivets lol, so I will learn right now just how much pain I'm in store for.
The trick is to get a punch onto the mandrel and drive it out. It's possible to very carefully drill into the center of the rivet but the mandrel is very hard steel, so the bit wants to slide off center into the softer aluminum. So I found two ways to help this: Use a very sharp bit in a rivet removal tool (works only on universal head rivets) to get a start on the center, then drive mandrel out (like a 1/16 punch IIRC). Or use a hard steel punch with a tapered point to get a start on the center part of the rivet. Both styles have a locking ring which can be worked out, but I never had any luck with that without ether a good drill into the center or punching out the mandrel.


Another approach:

https://www.google.com/search?q=dril...Kq_QbvtpWYCg24
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Turner Billingsley

RV-14A built/sold N14VB
RV-10 in progress as of May 2020

https://tbrv10.blogspot.com/
https://turnerb14a.blogspot.com/

Last edited by mturnerb : 03-15-2020 at 01:14 PM.
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  #24  
Old 03-15-2020, 01:29 PM
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BobbyLucas BobbyLucas is offline
 
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Thanks Turner. I wasn't looking forward to it, but I must've gotten lucky. All I did was give 'em a few god whacks with a spring-loaded center punch then drill out a spot for the regular punch to snap the head off and punch out the shop-head. Not going to become my favorite past-time, but not what I had feared. Holes aren't even wallered out. (Note, some of the removed rivets were 'bad' post-squeezed, but they didn't seem any different to remove from the properly set ones) Of course now that I've said this all future removals are sure to be pure agony.
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RV-12is Empennage Kit, Fuse Kit, #121228
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  #25  
Old 06-23-2020, 09:50 PM
StrictlyEXperimental StrictlyEXperimental is offline
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Layton,Utah
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Default will the Milwaukee electric rivet tool work with Cherrymax

I'm just about to install the doubler on the wing and it has one Cherrymax rivet which is a type I have never installed. After researching through the forum, I see that some are having better luck pulling slow with a manual puller (after lubing). Does anyone have any experience on CherryMax rivets with the Milwaukee M12 puller? It works well for the LP3-4.
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  #26  
Old 06-23-2020, 10:05 PM
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GeoffP GeoffP is offline
 
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Location: NSW, Australia
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Default It works

Quote:
Originally Posted by StrictlyEXperimental View Post
I'm just about to install the doubler on the wing and it has one Cherrymax rivet which is a type I have never installed. After researching through the forum, I see that some are having better luck pulling slow with a manual puller (after lubing). Does anyone have any experience on CherryMax rivets with the Milwaukee M12 puller? It works well for the LP3-4.
I've used the Milwaukee rivet gun, and it set all the Cherrymax rivets I had to install perfectly.
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  #27  
Old 06-24-2020, 05:34 AM
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BobbyLucas BobbyLucas is offline
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GeoffP View Post
I've used the Milwaukee rivet gun, and it set all the Cherrymax rivets I had to install perfectly.
Makes sense, that gun has a much slower controlled pull compared to a pneumatic.

For the lube, I recommend WD40 or something with a similar thin consistency. 3-IN-ONE oil did not work well for me; I assume it was too thick/viscous. ymmv
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Van Buren TWP, MI
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RV-12is Empennage Kit, Fuse Kit, #121228
N781PT Reserved
Donated 2020
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  #28  
Old 06-24-2020, 11:01 AM
N8DAV8R N8DAV8R is offline
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Salida, Ca
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Quote:
Originally Posted by StrictlyEXperimental View Post
I'm just about to install the doubler on the wing and it has one Cherrymax rivet which is a type I have never installed. After researching through the forum, I see that some are having better luck pulling slow with a manual puller (after lubing). Does anyone have any experience on CherryMax rivets with the Milwaukee M12 puller? It works well for the LP3-4.
Inconclusive because there was also a lube change, but we had poor results with M12 puller on the Cherrymax rivets that go in the fuselage bulkhead. Better results were had with the manual puller. Like I said, a lube change and bit of process adjustment was also involved so it may not be the puller so much as the lube. Once I was getting decent results I didn't want to go back and experiment much.

There were so many bad rivets that we had to order a box of replacements so I'll tinker more once those are here. My suspicion, like others you can find with some searching, is that the batch of rivets can make a big difference.
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  #29  
Old 06-25-2020, 04:05 PM
NinerBikes NinerBikes is offline
 
Join Date: Dec 2018
Location: Granada Hills
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Quote:
Originally Posted by N8DAV8R View Post
Inconclusive because there was also a lube change, but we had poor results with M12 puller on the Cherrymax rivets that go in the fuselage bulkhead. Better results were had with the manual puller. Like I said, a lube change and bit of process adjustment was also involved so it may not be the puller so much as the lube. Once I was getting decent results I didn't want to go back and experiment much.

There were so many bad rivets that we had to order a box of replacements so I'll tinker more once those are here. My suspicion, like others you can find with some searching, is that the batch of rivets can make a big difference.
Anyone with experience from Cherry rivets supplied from Aircraft Spruce? I ordered some CR3213-4-2 CHERRYMAX RIVETS from them. Hope to find someone with the G-27 pop rivet tool, or anything else that would certainly work to set them properly.

Edit: Punched one of the old ones out, and drilled a #30 hole in a 2x4 about 7/16" deep, and tapped the mandrels partially back out, for all 15 rivets I bought. Put them all back in the plastic bag that Aircraft Spruce ships them in, and then sprayed a blast of LPS-2 in the bag, and juiced all the rivets. Friend has a Craftsman manual puller, along side a couple of pneumatic pullers. It took 4 pulls for the manual riveter to finally "grab" the mandrel, then it pulled tight. Another "pop" and the mandrel came off. Got a good nice, tight rivet in place now. LPS-2 and the current batch of rivets from Aircraft Spruce work great. About $0.65 a rivet, plus shipping, on orders of either 50, or 100 or less, I think, then it's 50c a pop. I bought 2 new 500-5 6 ply Airhawk tires and some window cleaner, with the rivets, so the shipping was free.

Really feels like getting this plane, and going through it, is practically doing an annual inspection on it, just for my piece of mind.
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Last edited by NinerBikes : 06-29-2020 at 10:35 AM.
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