Certified Engine

[6 Gun]

Here is a couple of quotes from a earlier thread on engines that are mounted on Exp. aircraft it is my understanding that a certified engine that maintains its log book as all SB and AD are up to date can remain certified if it is signed off each year as airworthy by an AI .The aircraft and engine have separate log books and can be sold as a certified engine later. I think lots of people would like to know the answer to this question.
Bob

Quote:
Originally Posted by FasGlas
No... AD's and SB's only apply to certified engines (in this case). But.. Just because the engine is in an experimental plane that doesn't mean the engine is experimental. If the data tag is not marked EXP it would be subject to AD's.
The FAA's legal department has officially addressed both of these issues.
Quote:
An engine installed in an Experimental aircraft is not certified... regardless of what data tag it has on it.

Which is why AD's don't apply to the engines in experimentals.

You are correct when you say "the FAA makes the rules". The problem is that some of the regional offices don't fully understand the rules (though they may think they do). The thing that matters is what the FAA's legal dept thinks. The have already issued official positions on these issues.
__________________
Any opinions expressed in this message are my own and not necessarily those of my employer.

Scott McDaniels

[az_gila]

Originally Posted by 6 Gun

Here is a couple of quotes from a earlier thread on engines that are mounted on Exp. aircraft it is my understanding that a certified engine that maintains its log book as all SB and AD are up to date can remain certified if it is signed off each year as airworthy by an AI .The aircraft and engine have separate log books and can be sold as a certified engine later. I think lots of people would like to know the answer to this question.
Bob

Quote:
Originally Posted by FasGlas
No... AD's and SB's only apply to certified engines (in this case). But.. Just because the engine is in an experimental plane that doesn't mean the engine is experimental. If the data tag is not marked EXP it would be subject to AD's.
The FAA's legal department has officially addressed both of these issues.
Quote:
An engine installed in an Experimental aircraft is not certified... regardless of what data tag it has on it.

Which is why AD's don't apply to the engines in experimentals.

You are correct when you say "the FAA makes the rules". The problem is that some of the regional offices don't fully understand the rules (though they may think they do). The thing that matters is what the FAA's legal dept thinks. The have already issued official positions on these issues.
__________________
Any opinions expressed in this message are my own and not necessarily those of my employer.

Scott McDaniels

I would think an FAA AD applies to the units listed in the "Applicability" section of each AD.

This is that section for the recent Lycoming connecting rod AD -

This AD applies to:

(1) All Lycoming Engines reciprocating engines listed in Table 1 of Lycoming Engines Mandatory Service Bulletin (MSB) No. 632B, dated August 4, 2017, and

(2) all Lycoming Engines reciprocating engines that were overhauled or repaired using any replacement part listed in Table 2 of Lycoming Engines MSB No. 632B, dated August 4, 2017, which was shipped from Lycoming Engines during the dates listed in Table 2 of Lycoming Engines MSB No. 632B, dated August 4, 2017.

It simply refers to "Lycoming engines" - which I would read as being what is on the data plate of the engine installed in your experimental and listed in the aircraft registration/airworthiness documents in the FAA data base.

Is this not the case?

[n82rb]

added note, just because an engine has not had an AD done to it does not "de-certify" it, it just makes it un-airworthy in a certified airframe. the only thing certified means is that it conforms to the TCDS of the engine. that is why a experimental engine from lycoming can never become a certified engine even though it is identical to a certified engine. there is no TCDS for that model number engine.

to re-install an engine that was on an experimental on a certified airframe has nothing to do with who maintained it, or what is in the log book. all it takes is that it is inspected and a log book entry is made by an IA that the engine comforms to the TCDS. what does that inspection entail? that is up to IA that signs it. could be a log book check for approve parts and AD compliance, or it could require a teardown and compliance check on every part. up to the inspector.

bob burns
RV-4 N82RB

[6 Gun]

The question is can a certified engine mounted on an exp airframe remain certified if maintained that way?
Thanks
bob

[N941WR]

It is my understanding that once an engine is hung on an Experimental, the engine is now an "experimental" and before it can be hung on a certified airplane, it will require a complete major overhaul to verify it meets its type certificate.

The reason being is that the person signing the engine logbook is not a "certified" mechanic and cannot attest to the condition of an engine flown on a "certified" airplane.

[az_gila]

Originally Posted by N941WR

It is my understanding that once an engine is hung on an Experimental, the engine is now an "experimental" and before it can be hung on a certified airplane, it will require a complete major overhaul to verify it meets its type certificate.

The reason being is that the person signing the engine logbook is not a "certified" mechanic and cannot attest to the condition of an engine flown on a "certified" airplane.

But he/she is a certified mechanic if the owner does not have a Repairmans certificate. Even with one, I know some experimental aircraft owners who built their planes but still use an A&P for engine work.

It may not be as cut'n'dried as you state.

[n82rb]

Originally Posted by az_gila

I would think an FAA AD applies to the units listed in the "Applicability" section of each AD.

This is that section for the recent Lycoming connecting rod AD -

This AD applies to:

(1) All Lycoming Engines reciprocating engines listed in Table 1 of Lycoming Engines Mandatory Service Bulletin (MSB) No. 632B, dated August 4, 2017, and

(2) all Lycoming Engines reciprocating engines that were overhauled or repaired using any replacement part listed in Table 2 of Lycoming Engines MSB No. 632B, dated August 4, 2017, which was shipped from Lycoming Engines during the dates listed in Table 2 of Lycoming Engines MSB No. 632B, dated August 4, 2017.

It simply refers to "Lycoming engines" - which I would read as being what is on the data plate of the engine installed in your experimental and listed in the aircraft registration/airworthiness documents in the FAA data base.

Is this not the case?

here is a link to a post from denny pollard. denny is a retired awi from the pacific region. its an interesting read.

http://starduster.aircraftspruce.com...ckup/6366.html

bob burns
RV-4 N82RB

[n82rb]

Originally Posted by az_gila

But he/she is a certified mechanic if the owner does not have a Repairmans certificate. Even with one, I know some experimental aircraft owners who built their planes but still use an A&P for engine work.

It may not be as cut'n'dried as you state.

it really is cut and dried, because when the IA signs that it conforms to the TCDS he/she now owns the history.

thats why most people would not sign it off without at least teardown and IRAN.

bob burns
RV-4 N82RB

[Sam Buchanan]

Originally Posted by 6 Gun

The question is can a certified engine mounted on an exp airframe remain certified if maintained that way?
Thanks
bob

It's a moot point. Regardless of whether or not it has been maintained in a "certified" manner, it can't be installed in a certificated aircraft unless an IA endorses the logs as stated in the posts above.

I doubt you will find an IA that will make that endorsement without a complete teardown to assure compliance with the TCDS.

[bret]

If the FAA does not recognize a certified engine on an Experimental, why do they allow for a 25 hour phase one test period when a ( certified engine and prop ) are hung?