Overtaking by 80 knots please slow down

[snopercod]

Originally Posted by JordanGrant

...there are plenty of situations where pilots should politely ask for something different...

I think that's the key, and that's what ATC recommended when I spoke to them after another "situation". My airport is in a shallow valley with 6,000' mountains about 5 miles on either side. I have approached the airport several time when they give me a vector "for sequencing" to parallel the runway, only 7 miles abeam. This last time, I had flown for 3.6 hours and was tired and just wanted to get home. I had made a nice, smooth descent from 11,500' down to 4,000' in preparation for landing when they gave me one of those vectors directly into the tall mountains. So I had to climb back up to 6,000' to clear the peaks (by 500'), and got the **** beat out of me by the moderate turbulence up there. If my engine had quit, I would have been screwed, and it all seemed so unnecessary.

They did that to me once before and the turbulence was so bad up there that stuff was floating around the cockpit and my headset was knocked out of place. I even have video of that one: https://www.dropbox.com/s/p6zcfhmrh3...LENCE.mp4?dl=0

It's my sense that the controllers - sitting there watching their flat screens - don't have an understanding of the increased danger of flying low over mountains. If I had been on an IFR flight plan, I would have been WAY below the Minimum Vectoring Altitude.

After this most recent experience, I called them and politely explained about the mountains and turbulence. The controller I spoke with told me to just ask to stay close in and they'll try to accommodate my request. So next time, I'll just say something like, "I'd rather not fly up over those mountains, could I do some 360s instead?"

[kstone]

I'm sure most all have seen this. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xPo5yuLbvco

[PilotjohnS]

Hard to watch. I am hoping I would have done something different if I was on board, like fly away and reenter airspace; push that reset button to calm everything down.

I have been in a similar situation before with an IFR instructor trying to get into long beach. He stress me out and got me in over my head. Quickly told him, "no I am not going to do that approach, lets make it simpler for my first time."

[snopercod]

Originally Posted by kstone

I'm sure most all have seen this. ...

That's just heartbreaking.

[Toobuilder]

Originally Posted by snopercod

That's just heartbreaking.

Yep, that's pretty unbelivable. I'll bet those tower guys have had a few sleepless nights since then.

Its a good reminder that we are "on our own" as pilots in the end.

[rockwoodrv9]

I would like to revise my opinion on airliners having the priority after watching that video. That was total BS. I would probably accept one go around or change, then it becomes unable. Those controllers were the problem. I think they forget that all of us GA pilots are not always as experienced as the airliners.

That is as said, heartbreaking. It is hard to get over seeing that.

[BobTurner]

Originally Posted by rockwoodrv9

I would like to revise my opinion on airliners having the priority after watching that video. That was total BS. I would probably accept one go around or change, then it becomes unable. Those controllers were the problem. I think they forget that all of us GA pilots are not always as experienced as the airliners.

That is as said, heartbreaking. It is hard to get over seeing that.

Did we watch the same video? Was asked to,but didn?t, keep her speed up. Go around #1. Sent around to 35, botched pattern, too high, go around #2. Then stalled and spun the plane. How is any of this the controller?s fault?
I agree, it?s sad.

[rockwoodrv9]

Originally Posted by BobTurner

Did we watch the same video? Was asked to,but didn?t, keep her speed up. Go around #1. Sent around to 35, botched pattern, too high, go around #2. Then stalled and spun the plane. How is any of this the controller?s fault?
I agree, it?s sad.

Maybe we watched the same video but didnt see things the same. I looked at her green ground tracking marks and saw several circles she was told to do. It looked like at least 3-4 full circle turns. I believe I heard him tell her to turn towards the airport, but told her the wrong direction. That could have been a delay in how her position was shown but still confusing. As a very low time pilot, it was all very confusing to me. At any time, he could have had the jets or even the King Air do a 360 and the woman would be alive. I understand as the pilot, she lost control but the confusing instructions from the controller did not help.

[mike newall]

That was a difficult 6 or 7 minutes to watch, because you knew what the outcome was, it just got steadily worse as the pressure increased on the pilot.

A poster above asked if we watched the same video - we did, but here is where we get into the world of Human Factors, CRM, whatever it is currently called.

It highlights what has been said earlier and shows that what may be going on in the tower is not necessarily reflected in what is happening in the aeroplane.

We have 1 pilot doing her best and up to 3 different voices of controllers, quite frankly overloading her.

I am not sure what her experience level was, but that is a classic case where a polite - no, I am not doing that, move me away, tell me when I can make an uninterrupted approach is called for.

It should be taught, there should be liaison visits to towers at local or provincial airports as part of post training coaching - most towers will gladly arrange.

I have sent that link to our safety department at work to consider as a submission for next years safety training day. It is as pertinent to big stuff as well as small stuff. We had a crew make 3 approaches into Las Vegas a few years ago, bust their approach count (2 and you divert - period) because ATC were hassling them into a quartering tailwind visual in an A330 which just doesn't handle like a 320 or 737.

[grubbat]

That young lady sounded like my daughter. She was following all those crazy instructions and changes and repeating everything just like she was taught. I could almost feel myself get flustered and when she was too high I almost knew it before it happened as if it was inevitable. I am convinced that she did a better job following their commandments including "keep it tight" better than me. The video at the end left me speechless.

I wanted to post something that was noteworthy and valued added after watching the video but I confess that everything I came up with was full of emotion and emptines. So, I called my daughter and told her that it was her responsibility and only her responsibility to safely operate that machine and the controllers are there only to assist .......... and never be afraid to tell them "unable", no matter how unconvenient the situation is for everyone.