Prop strike and an AD question

[FasGlas]

Originally Posted by 13brv3

Are experimental engines subject to ADs? I didn't think so. While it may be wise to comply, I don't know that it's mandatory.

Rusty (I could be wrong)

No... AD's and SB's only apply to certified engines (in this case). But.. Just because the engine is in an experimental plane that doesn't mean the engine is experimental. If the data tag is not marked EXP it would be subject to AD's. With that said, it would be an unwise decision to not replace the AD'd rods. The cost of a possible engine implosion will be far more expensive.

[RV7A Flyer]

Originally Posted by FasGlas

But.. Just because the engine is in an experimental plane that doesn't mean the engine is experimental. If the data tag is not marked EXP it would be subject to AD's.

Wait wait wait...are you saying that if I buy an IO-360, either new from Lycoming or used from someone else or whatever, NOT one marked "YIO", and put it on my RV, then it's not "experimental", thus all the rules and regulations for TC'd engines applies?

Wouldn't that mean that only someone with a "P" (A&P) can do other than minor/routine maintenance on it? That I can't change pieces and parts as I wish? etc.?

I was under the impression that once it's mounted on an E/AB plane, it's "E".

[13brv3]

Originally Posted by FasGlas

No... AD's and SB's only apply to certified engines (in this case). But.. Just because the engine is in an experimental plane that doesn't mean the engine is experimental. If the data tag is not marked EXP it would be subject to AD's. With that said, it would be an unwise decision to not replace the AD'd rods. The cost of a possible engine implosion will be far more expensive.

That's certainly not the way I understand it. I think once the engine is on an experimental aircraft, it is no longer certified. I'm pretty sure it would have to be overhauled by an appropriate mechanic or facility to restore "certified" status.

Cheers,
Rusty

[FasGlas]

If you take a Lycoming O-360-A1A and don't change anything the tag is what the engine is - a Lycoming O-360-A1A. If you take that this same engine and install a set of Lycon 10:1 cylinders this engine is no longer what the tag says it is. The tag is the type certificate for that certified engine, if changed from that it's illegal for certified use. You must stamp EXP on the tag if you change the engine from what it was certified to be (for experimental use). If you install a certified engine and prop on your experimental aircraft the engine and prop does not change. They are still subject to AD's at every annual. Don't forget that an aircraft is A & P not just an airplane. The A airframe of an RV would always be experimental and not subject to AD's but the P powerplant is a different story if you buy a certified engine and prop. Most owners don't know this and I see illegal tags all the time on experimental planes.

In the case of this engine the OP's thread is about, if it were experimental he would not be required to do anything. He could change the prop and go flying, he could use those AD'd rod forever. The key is type certificate.

[RV7A Flyer]

Originally Posted by FasGlas

If you take a Lycoming O-360-A1A and don't change anything the tag is what the engine is - a Lycoming O-360-A1A. If you take that this same engine and install a set of Lycon 10:1 cylinders this engine is no longer what the tag says it is. The tag is the type certificate for that certified engine, if changed from that it's illegal for certified use. You must stamp EXP on the tag if you change the engine from what it was certified to be (for experimental use). If you install a certified engine and prop on your experimental aircraft the engine and prop does not change. They are still subject to AD's at every annual. Don't forget that an aircraft is A & P not just an airplane. The A airframe of an RV would always be experimental and not subject to AD's but the P powerplant is a different story if you buy a certified engine and prop. Most owners don't know this and I see illegal tags all the time on experimental planes.

In the case of this engine the OP's thread is about, if it were experimental he would not be required to do anything. He could change the prop and go flying, he could use those AD'd rod forever. The key is type certificate.

Forgetting about ADs (that's another long discussion) applying to experimentals...

I don't think this is true at all. I'm with the other poster...once you hang it on an E/AB, it's experimental. What you have to do with the dataplate, I dunno, but IIRC, by virtue of being installed on an E/AB, it's E.

Perhaps Mel or someone could chime in here.

[FasGlas]

I've been an A&P for a long time. That's the way the rules are. What people do is up to them. A certified part doesn't change because it's location changes.

Case in point: http://www.superiorairparts.com/xp-s...engine-models/ These are not certified engines nor are they tagged as such

[BobTurner]

Originally Posted by FasGlas

I've been an A&P for a long time. That's the way the rules are. What people do is up to them. A certified part doesn't change because it's location changes.

Maybe it?s time for a refresher course.
Once installed on an EAB, anyone may work on the engine, or modify it. Because of that it may no longer be in conformance with its type certificate, hence not ?certified?. ADs are not mandatory. If the engine is pulled, an appropriately rated person may inspect the engine and, if found in conformance to its TC, it is once again ?certified? and may be installed on a normal catagory airplane. OTOH ?XIO? engines never had any paperwork showing conformance, so they can never be installed on normally certified aircraft.

Same rules for all other parts.

[Toobuilder]

Well, it's been a few months since we had this discussion... Should we just provide links to the earlier stuff or do it again and see if the outcome changes?

And for the record, I'm with Bob. A "certified" engine is effectively poisoned the second it flies on an E-AB.

[bigwheel]

There is an EAA webinar about modifying EAB aircraft which includes a discussion about engines. Bob basically nailed it.

[FasGlas]

You all can believe whatever you wish but don't be so sure you're right. I've been down this road with the FAA and they make the rules not the EAA.