VansAirForceForums  
Home > VansAirForceForums

- POSTING RULES
- Donate yearly (please).
- Advertise in here!

- Today's Posts | Insert Pics


Go Back   VAF Forums > Main > RV General Discussion/News
Register FAQ Members List Calendar Today's Posts

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
  #1  
Old 10-14-2017, 02:14 PM
Ed_Wischmeyer's Avatar
Ed_Wischmeyer Ed_Wischmeyer is offline
 
Join Date: May 2005
Location: Savannah, GA
Posts: 1,301
Default The Benefits of IFR and side stories

On Friday, the mission was to fly the RV-9A from Savannah down to Jesse Saint's shop near Ocala, Florida, to get cracks in the boarding steps welded. The morning weather in coastal Georgia was low clouds and ugliness, but no rain. I thought. Fortunately it was localized.

Departure was easy, with the autopilot engaged 500 feet up. Instead of TOGA, I used autopilot vertical speed mode and heading hold to comply with the departure instructions. One minute in the clouds and we were on top. The rest of the flight was clear of clouds in smooth, cool air till the descent when I was in and out of the puffy clouds in warm, bumpy air. So an hour and a half flight was easy with only a few minutes of IFR but if I'd tried VFR, I would have been on the ground waiting for the weather so I could bump along in warm air. And IFR, I was careful to not fly over regions of low ceilings where I would have no chance of finding a landing spot if I had to descend through the goo after a power failure.

Coming back this morning, departure was all in VMC, but the radar (cellphone app on the ground, ADS-B uplink in the air) showed a line of showers coming in off the Atlantic. With the moving map and heading hold on the autopilot, I deviated inland to avoid that weather, using the ADS-B to help me figure out which clouds were worth the closest visual inspection. The big cloud ahead didn't show up on the ADS-B but as I got closer, there were little puffs coming out the top, indicating that vertical development (bumps, in other words) were starting. I deviated farther inland, went through 30 seconds of cloud with only the lightest turbulence, and then was in another air mass with all kinds of beautiful clouds in the distance. The deviations cost me maybe 10 minutes of flight time, but smooth air instead of hefty bumps in the clouds was well worth it.

Close to home, I skimmed the tops of clouds at 2000 feet before intercepting the glideslope, breaking out at maybe 1200 feet. This was my first ILS in actual IMC in the RV-9A, and the autopilot did just fine. I disconnected at 500 feet so I could make the first turnoff.

So once again, ugly VFR was super simple IFR, both ways. And I used the technology to avoid the bumps as well. Wish I could do that in the RV-8, but that would require an approved navigation radio, a backup attitude indicator, autopilot, and a new panel. Worth doing on a new plane, but not on a retrofit.

On another note, the steps received white powder coating that matched the white paint on the airplane, replacing the dark blue paint that they had originally. The nice result was that the steps now contrast nicely with the lower fuselage without having to be in some obnoxious orange.

And on a last note, the folks at ITEC aviation were all just great. They are all mission (as in missionary) oriented, and I've met so many missionaries that were just great folks. At the back of the hangar was a mural, 40 feet wide, painted by Lawrence Saint who got his start restoring stained glass windows in Europe after WWI. His son Nate Saint was martyred in the Amazon in 1956, and Nate's oldest son Steve wound up living a few years in the jungle with the tribe that killed his dad. Jesse is Steve's oldest son. Many stories there worth the telling and looking up on the web.
__________________
RV-9A at KSAV (Savannah, GA; dual G3X Touch with autopilot, GTN650, GTX330ES, GDL52 ADSB-In)
Previously RV-4, RV-8, RV-8A, AirCam, Cessna 175
ATP CFII PhD, so I have no excuses when I screw up
2020 dues slightly overpaid
Retired - "They used to pay me to be good, now I'm good for nothing."
Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old 10-16-2017, 04:24 AM
Tooch Tooch is offline
 
Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: Amelia, Va
Posts: 268
Default IFR

Thanks for the story. I am working on my instrument rating right now after being an VFR pilot for 25 years. I am 55 but still think I'm young enough to learn. I am also upgrading my RV 7a with a new Gamin GTN 625. I'm sure it will all be worth it.
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 10-16-2017, 06:07 AM
ssmdive's Avatar
ssmdive ssmdive is offline
 
Join Date: Jul 2012
Location: FLL
Posts: 120
Default

Honestly, I hate long XC's in a VFR only plane. If I have the ability to fly IFR, then I will often fly VFR, but happy I have the ability if needed. In my Pitts, I have no IFR ability so a long XC is more stressful.
__________________
1996 Challenger II CWS - Sold 113 hours
1974 Citabria 7ECA - Sold 211 hours
RV6 Partnership - Sold
1986 Pitts S1S - Flying
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old 10-16-2017, 06:21 AM
GalinHdz's Avatar
GalinHdz GalinHdz is offline
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: KSGJ / TJBQ
Posts: 2,034
Default

FWIW: I have gotten so used to IFR flying that I am almost afraid to fly long distance VFR only. For flying around the local airports, VFR is the fun way to do it. But for long cross countries, IFR is the only way I go. YMMV

__________________
Galin
CP-ASEL-AMEL-IR
FCC Radiotelephone (PG) with Radar Endorsement
2020 Donation made
www.PuertoRicoFlyer.com
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 10-16-2017, 06:49 AM
grubbat's Avatar
grubbat grubbat is offline
 
Join Date: May 2012
Location: Ga
Posts: 662
Default Thanks Ed

I've been in and out of getting the IFR rating. Lots of money spent on John/Martha videos, weekend prep classes, so forth over the years. Mid -50's isn't nice to a feller trying to learn/relearn/learn stuff but it's good to know that some are able to do it.

Waiting on vfr weather when I have available to me a nice twin is quite criminal. I can't imagine how good it is to be able to plan a trip without worrying about vfr at destination.
__________________
Craig

RV-3 Sold
RV-4 Sold
RV-6a Sold
RV-9 IO-360 CS, Built and Flying
Aerostar 600A, Family Hotrod
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 10-16-2017, 08:04 AM
Christopher Murphy Christopher Murphy is offline
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: colorado
Posts: 872
Default Ifr great tool

I read your story and one thing popped out at me..auto pilot on..

Auto pilot is a nice thing to have but dont bet your life on it. Could you fly that whole trip without your Autopilot.

First real imc ILS was that a chance to reinforce a perishable skill?

Somethings to think about

Cm
__________________
RV-4 "Mr. Twister"
Pitts S1S "Mexican Red" sold and missed
Mr. Twister Airshows
Rocky Mountain Renegades
the mission... have fun.
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old 10-16-2017, 08:36 AM
lr172 lr172 is offline
 
Join Date: Oct 2013
Location: Schaumburg, IL
Posts: 5,281
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Christopher Murphy View Post
I read your story and one thing popped out at me..auto pilot on..

Auto pilot is a nice thing to have but dont bet your life on it. Could you fly that whole trip without your Autopilot.

First real imc ILS was that a chance to reinforce a perishable skill?

Somethings to think about

Cm
+1 here

While I happily put the AP on for long cruise segments, I always hand fly any IMC that I get in all other phases, including the entire approach. I simply don't get enough time in actual to stay as sharp as I would like and couldn't imagine passing up the opportunity. While I have done some AP testing in VMC, I have never shot an approach on AP, except for the one required on my checkride. I imagine I may not feel this way if I was exposed to actual conditions on a regular basis.

For me anyways, after not flying IMC for several months, the first minute or two is big adjustment and it takes a bit for things to become second nature again. In the busy Chicago airspace, I have dropped into a layer, from VMC, just as I am being vectored all over creation, with rapid altitude changes, then right into the approach. It all happens fast and you need the skills to be relatively sharp. I would not want to be in that situation with an inop AP if my SOP was an AP driven approach.
Larry
__________________
N64LR - RV-6A / IO-320, Flying as of 8/2015
N11LR - RV-10, Flying as of 12/2019

Last edited by lr172 : 10-16-2017 at 08:55 AM.
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old 10-16-2017, 08:50 AM
GalinHdz's Avatar
GalinHdz GalinHdz is offline
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: KSGJ / TJBQ
Posts: 2,034
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by lr172 View Post
While I happily put the AP on for long cruise segments, I always hand fly any IMC that I get in all other phases, including the entire approach.
Agree 1,000%. FWIW I hand fly every approach all the way to the missed approach point when needed. But the autopilot is AWESOME for the cruise portion of a trip. It keeps me right where I am supposed to be but the best part is I am significantly more alert and rested after several hours of flying in the clouds. So when I start the approach phase I can do a much better job. THAT to me is a great overall safety enhancement. YMMV

__________________
Galin
CP-ASEL-AMEL-IR
FCC Radiotelephone (PG) with Radar Endorsement
2020 Donation made
www.PuertoRicoFlyer.com
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old 10-16-2017, 11:21 AM
Ed_Wischmeyer's Avatar
Ed_Wischmeyer Ed_Wischmeyer is offline
 
Join Date: May 2005
Location: Savannah, GA
Posts: 1,301
Default

There's more to it.

I'm flying mostly autopilot so that I can learn how to use it, what it's really doing, so that I can get the autopilot parameters tuned in, and so that I can fuss with the weather uplink and all the other toys on the panel.

For the last 40 some years, I've flown IFR in planes without autopilots, and with paper charts. Hand-flying is not an issue for me. But still, the next step will be to hand fly really well while fussing with all of the panel toys.

Great comments, y'all!

Ed
__________________
RV-9A at KSAV (Savannah, GA; dual G3X Touch with autopilot, GTN650, GTX330ES, GDL52 ADSB-In)
Previously RV-4, RV-8, RV-8A, AirCam, Cessna 175
ATP CFII PhD, so I have no excuses when I screw up
2020 dues slightly overpaid
Retired - "They used to pay me to be good, now I'm good for nothing."
Reply With Quote
  #10  
Old 10-16-2017, 11:27 AM
rzbill's Avatar
rzbill rzbill is offline
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: Asheville, NC
Posts: 2,690
Default

I can't say enough about how an instrument ticket made me a more precise flyer even in VFR.

I've had the ticket for ten years and used it plenty. Most of the time it was to take off in the common early morning fog at Asheville KAVL and go to a VFR destination. Simple. About a 1/4 of the time an approach was needed on the other end.

However, recently I had to do in real life for the first time something we train for. A real missed approach and use of the alternate to sit on the ground and wait. Waited for the weather to get above minimums at the desired destination and shot successful approach, popping out at 500 AGL.

It has been a learning experience. I have flown through the remains of 3 hurricanes (Harvey and others) and during those experiences I have learned how good the ATC folks really are. Its gratifying to be a part of that team to create a safe flight.
__________________
Bill Pendergrass
ME/AE '82
RV-7A: Flying since April 15, 2012. 850 hrs
YIO-360-M1B, mags, CS, GRT EX and WS H1s & A/P, Navworx
Unpainted, polished....kinda'... Eyeballin' vinyl really hard.
Yeah. The boss got a Silhouette Cameo 4 Xmas 2019.
Reply With Quote
Reply



Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump


All times are GMT -6. The time now is 01:49 AM.


The VAFForums come to you courtesy Delta Romeo, LLC. By viewing and participating in them you agree to build your plane using standardized methods and practices and to fly it safely and in accordance with the laws governing the country you are located in.