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  #1  
Old 02-14-2007, 06:45 PM
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cjensen cjensen is offline
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Milwaukee, WI area
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Default Electric heaters?

I was thinking about heaters on my long 14 minute drive home from work today. I'm probably missing something here, but why hasn't anyone used a small electric heater for use in the cockpit, rather than muffler shroud heat? Or has anyone? It would be instantaneous heat, no CO (I don't think...???), and easily installed in the baggage compartment or between the rudder pedals.

Thoughts?
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  #2  
Old 02-14-2007, 07:06 PM
fehdxl fehdxl is offline
 
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Location: Bellevue, NE
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Default the way we've always done it?

CJ, I've had the same exact thought lately. My guess is that back in the day, generators weren't powerfull enough (in the amps sense) and 12 volt hair-dryers weren't invented (were they?). So the exhaust muff was the best option. Plus it's simple and light...something to be said for that precept. -Jim
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  #3  
Old 02-14-2007, 07:07 PM
c177tx c177tx is offline
 
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Location: Austin
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I have an electrict vest that I have from my motorcycle days, Keeps you real warm, is very light weight and will do double duty as a vest to wear outside the RV.

http://www.motorcyclegearreview.com/....php?prodID=84
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  #4  
Old 02-14-2007, 07:14 PM
Kyle Boatright Kyle Boatright is offline
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Atlanta, GA
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Aircraft Spruce sells 12v DC heaters. You can choose from the 300W or the 420W model. The 300W model requires 25 amps @12v and the 420W model takes 35 amps. That's a pretty big load for most of our alternators to sustain while retaining capacity to run everything else and charge a battery. So, to effectively use one of these puppies, you'll probably need to buy an upgraded alternator in addition to the heater.

Besides the technical realities, the canard guys have tried these heaters and the conclusion was that the heaters only put out enough warmth to keep your toes from freezing.

Since you've got a great source of heat a foot or two from the firewall, it is probably easiest to use the conventional set-up. It'll provide more heat and won't tax the electrical system.
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  #5  
Old 02-14-2007, 07:48 PM
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bullojm1 bullojm1 is offline
 
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Besides the power draw of the electric heater, there is also the efficiency aspect of converting engine power to electricity to heat. Compare that to the efficiency of Exhaust Heat to Cabin heat. When the alternator needs to make more electricity, it kicks in via the regulator and puts more load on the engine. Not so with the exhaust muffs. Now, I don't know if it makes that much of a difference it makes, but something to think about.

Also, this has got to expand beyond aircraft -- why doesn't my truck have an electric heater instead of tapping off of the cooling system? Even nice rides like bimmers have the same heating system -- if electric made sense, you would think the luxery cars would be all over it now.
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  #6  
Old 02-14-2007, 08:02 PM
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Geico266 Geico266 is offline
 
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Has anyone added two heat muffs? I like flying, but at 0F it's still COLD!
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  #7  
Old 02-14-2007, 08:06 PM
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G-force G-force is offline
 
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Location: Castaic, CA
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Quote:
Originally Posted by c177tx
I have an electrict vest that I have from my motorcycle days, Keeps you real warm, is very light weight and will do double duty as a vest to wear outside the RV.

http://www.motorcyclegearreview.com/....php?prodID=84
Same here. I have a Widder System 2 vest that I use on my motorcycle. I plan to install a BMW style outlet for it in my plane. I believe it draws about 35 watts 12v DC which is less than 3 amps.
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  #8  
Old 02-14-2007, 08:29 PM
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gmcjetpilot gmcjetpilot is offline
 
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Default Electric is too inefficient

Electric is a very inefficient way to go, unless you go with motorcycle, outdoor, hunting gear/clothes, ie hot socks, liners and so on. There is so much wasted heat going out the pipes you should use it. IF you work out the Watts needed you will need a BIG alternator.

Why do we still get cold?

-Inefficient heat muff or too small
-terrible cockpit ventilation:
1) Air leaks IN causing drafts and causing cabin pressure to be too high for airflow from heat muff and thru cockpit

2) Not a sufficient VENT or air exit out the cabin allowing controlled flow
The key is have a dedicated cabin exit or vent (as high and far back in the cabin) to draw the air out in a controlled way and pull air (from heat duct into the cabin). Look at a Bonanza or Piper Comanche, you'll see exit vents in the tail (reverse scoops). A good place on the RV would be belly a few feet behind the trailing edge. You want something to suck the air out of the cabin. If the cabin is totally sealed the cabin heat air will be stagnant and not have any flow (aka heat transfer) into the cabin.

Reduce extraneous leaks into or out of the cabin. Cold air leaks in is obviously bad but leaks out are also a problem. Leaks out in random places is not a good way to plan VENTALATION. For one it is draggy when cabin air "plumes out" in random places into the free airstream. Also the volume and location of air leaks out is not sufficient or conducive to comfort.

You want the HOT air from the heat muff to be pulled from the heat register across you feet, torso, head and shoulders and than out the cabin, not swirling around in miscellaneous places in the cabin. Here is thread on a dedicated cabin air exit vent. http://www.vansairforce.com/communit...nt+cabin+scoop


I don't think louvers in the tail access panels work, for one there are so many leaks INTO the tail that it tends probably fight or negate the venting thru the tail. I guess if you ran SCAT to the tail it might be better but that is expensive and adds weight.

Insulate the cabin as best possible, although we have a full bubble canopy which makes it difficult to keep from losing some heat. If its cold but bright sunny, heating is not a problem. Overcast or night and cold, it is a challenge.

Increase the efficiency of heat muff. I had heat studs spot welded onto the pipes. This is common certified aircraft stuff. It gives more surface area. Either AWI or http://www.aircraftexhaust.net/ can do the heat studs, I recall. Here are my pipes. you can see the studs. The outer cover of the heat-muff which covers the studs is off, but when installed it looks like typical heat.



I guess the old stick to the plans and don't reinvent the wheel comes to mind. You can fly very comfortable with heat muffs if you design it properly. If you get on a the Vari-Ez and Long-Ez sites you can look up the viability or lack of viability to this.

I have a cigarette lighter jack and can plug in a little portable ceramic windshield fan heater for defrost but it draws about 12 amps. That is a big part of my 35-45 amp alternator's capacity, and that is for a little crummy windshield defroster.

They way they did it in my old twin was a gas fired heater blower in the nose. You just could not vent hot air from the wing engines to the cabin efficiently.

Staying warm when it is way below freezing in a metal plane going almost 200 mph is a challenge. I think hats and gloves and yes even electric motorcycle/hunting clothes might do the trick. The last TRICK is the good old low tech blanket. For the ladies who are cold a blanket is nice, and if you can pipe some warm air under the blanket they can get pretty toasty.
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Last edited by gmcjetpilot : 02-14-2007 at 09:43 PM.
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  #9  
Old 02-15-2007, 06:45 AM
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f1rocket f1rocket is offline
 
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I have dual heat muffs on the Rocket and electric seat heaters. I can fly when it's below zero and stay pretty comfortable. My canopy seals pretty good though so that's a consideration.

Tried a quartz heater in my Long-EZ. It was a waste of good money, still froze.
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  #10  
Old 02-15-2007, 07:34 AM
TerryWighs TerryWighs is offline
 
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Maybe the best solution to lack of heat, is to make a very serious effort to block and deal with any drafts. As well, an attempt to insulate the cabin to hold onto the heat that is already there???
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