Taking an RV around the world.....

Chewie65 · #1 02-03-2007, 09:47 PM

I know of three people that have taken RV around the world. An Aussie (Jon Johanson)in an RV-4, an American in an RV-8 and a Brit in an RV-6.

This isn't a question on what to do to an RV to make the trip, but ideas are welcome. I am more interested in the logistics. Mostly the ins and outs of flying an RV in other countries. I know from Johanson that Australia requires the prints to be followed to the T when building.

But what happens if I showed up in Germany or Africa in a modified RV such as a Subie motor and tip tanks? Just an example folks! Could have used an Innodyn too, but the Subie gets people going anyway.....

Ideas? I would like to do this in the next 20 years or so, but I am curious.

Paul Thomas · #2 02-03-2007, 11:03 PM

This is what I've been told, it could be wrong.
The experimetal rules of that country don't apply to you. You're an FAA pilot flying and N numbered airplane. However, some country require special authorization to fly an experimental in their country.

The rest of the paperwork (flight permits), different flight rules, immigration... is the meat of it and info that's not so available. Ferry pilots keep it pretty secret as it's their livelyhood and the people who've done it have yet to write a manual on how to do it. Of course each experience would be different anyways for a world trip. It sure if fun to dream about though.

rv8ch · #3 02-04-2007, 01:33 AM

Here's a good place to start:

http://www.earthrounders.com/

I met some of these people at OSH '05, and they are very open, and happy to share experiences, tips, tricks, and techniques.

There seems to be two ways to do it:

1) do all the logistics yourself;
2) outsource the logistics to a company that does this professionally.

I've spoken to people that have done it both ways, and as you can imagine there is a world of difference. Outsourcing it costs money, in the range of 50k USD, I've heard. It does greatly reduce the hassles. If you've never flown outside the "western world", then you might not be able to even imagine the kinds of problems you can run into. Having a local there to look after your interests can be very useful.

Bill Randolph (RV8) didn't use any logistics companies, but he said it was a great experience. He ran into all kinds of strange issues, but in the end, he made it.

Good luck!

Geico266 · #4 02-04-2007, 05:58 AM

A Sloviainian pilot friend of mine was attempting to fly around the world in a motor glider in 2002. Got 3/4's around the world to Alaska and was stopped by Air Canada. Paper work snafu. Had to turn around and go home! Canada for crying out loud! What would he hit if he crashed a moose?

He then attempted it again in '04". He landed at OSH after getting clearance from Air Canada and we thought all was well. Well, Air Canada started in again at OSH! in our own country! They were not going to let him travel through Canada again! It was really BS. All he wanted to do was fly though their air space! Not even stop! This time he just kept flying and made it. He could go 12 hours without refueling. His Pipistrel motor glider was all carbon fiber. Stealth! Scud running at it's best!

There is now a warrant for his arrest in Canada if he ever comes back.

Oh, he was almost shot down in Russia by 2 Migs. Due to the stealthly characteristics of the plane the Rooshkies were really nervous. They went up looking for him, but could not find him.

I copied this from earth rounders. = August 31, 2002: Slovenian Matevz Lenarcic has had to abandon his RTW (round the world) flight in Canada as the Canadian CAA does not allow him to fly on across the North Atlantic. What a pity, after all his efforts through the Russian bureaucracy and the flying difficulties. Congratulations to Matevz on an epic flight thus far.
http://www.worldtranssiberia.com/

It amazed me how one branch of the Canadian government wants tourism, and another branch tries to kill it. I would never fly into Canada in a private plane. I've seen the nasty side to Air Canada.

smokyray · #5 02-05-2007, 10:07 AM

Fortunately, after 16 pond crossings for my Uncle in a single engine jet, all of the logistics hassles were taken care of for me. 8 hours and 6 refuelings later, you are there. If I was doing it in my RV, some "outside the box" thinking would ensue.
First thought, why land at all? I helped modify a Cessna 210A for a missionary organization that flew the airplane from Sacramento to Tanzania. The hardest part of the trip for them was landing. Most of the places were hostile or prohibitive. One stop nearly landed them in jail. The debrief item they gave me was "I wish we had more gas and could have gone non-stop".
You could be the first non stop RV flight. How, you say? Air Refuel my brother! Why not take 2 pilots or 2 good AP's, and build in an air refueling capability and have aerial tankers fill you inflight. It's been done before many times in small airplanes, the longest flight is recorded on the side of the C-172 that did it, one month airborne back in 1959 I believe. The C-172 now hangs in the Las Vegas airport. It still holds the longest airborne time record.
Long distance is nothing new either. Charles Lindberg took off with 425 gallons in the Spirit of St Louis back in 1927 and averaged 82 knots burning over 10 gph for 33.5 hours with a 220hp engine. In Paris, he still had enough gas left to divert to Rome! Max Conrad flew a Comanche from Tripoli Libya to Los Angeles, non-stop back in 1960. He emerged from the Comanche after 30 hours in a Tuxedo! Max's book, The Flying Grandpa is a must-read for anyone who likes the idea of long flights over water. Dick Rutan and Mike Melville flew their Long EZ's together around the world 8 years ago. I think with todays technology, you could do even better.
A wet-wing RV (or whatever you want to call the new experimental) could be built to carry well over 200 gallons. At 7 gph and 150 knots GS that's enough to require you only 3 or 4 refuelings (or landings). You could refuel over international waters and not need a permit (or pick 3 friendly countries to land in). The beauty of air refueling is landing gear and tire loads are reduced and the airplane avoids takeoff and climb fully loaded.
Or, you could just figure the distance and do several "closed courses" around friendly country. UK-US, UK-Japan, Japan-US. All of those legs have been done by lightplanes over the years and are well documented. 100 consecutive flying hours sounds painful to me, but if you're determined, that's my 2 pennies.

My advice, avoid landing in bad-guy land. If Steve Fosset can do it, you can too...

Rob Ray

Mel · #6 02-05-2007, 10:20 AM

Rob,
Sounds good, but one small anomaly. I don't think you're going to get 150kts @7 gph while carrying 200 gallons of fuel.

smokyray · #7 02-05-2007, 10:27 AM

I agree Mel, I just threw it out as a rough gouge. Realistically I think JJ averaged closer to 130 in his RV4. Max Conrad flew the Comanche at 105 knots and increased speed as he burned fuel. My longest leg ever was 12 hours in the F16, that one hurt..

30+ must be really painful.

seeya!

RR

Paul Thomas · #8 02-05-2007, 10:43 AM

What was JJ (or the 2 other world travellers) fuel capacity?

pierre smith · #9 02-05-2007, 11:29 AM

According to his book, Jon had 18 hours of fuel aboard his -4. That included 300 lbs in his rear seat...

Regards,

rv6ejguy · #10 02-05-2007, 12:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Geico266

A Sloviainian pilot friend of mine was attempting to fly around the world in a motor glider in 2002. Got 3/4's around the world to Alaska and was stopped by Air Canada. Paper work snafu. Had to turn around and go home! Canada for crying out loud! What would he hit if he crashed a moose?

He then attempted it again in '04". He landed at OSH after getting clearance from Air Canada and we thought all was well. Well, Air Canada started in again at OSH! in our own country! They were not going to let him travel through Canada again! It was really BS. All he wanted to do was fly though their air space! Not even stop! This time he just kept flying and made it. He could go 12 hours without refueling. His Pipistrel motor glider was all carbon fiber. Stealth! Scud running at it's best!

There is now a warrant for his arrest in Canada if he ever comes back.

Oh, he was almost shot down in Russia by 2 Migs. Due to the stealthly characteristics of the plane the Rooshkies were really nervous. They went up looking for him, but could not find him.

I copied this from earth rounders. = August 31, 2002: Slovenian Matevz Lenarcic has had to abandon his RTW (round the world) flight in Canada as the Canadian CAA does not allow him to fly on across the North Atlantic. What a pity, after all his efforts through the Russian bureaucracy and the flying difficulties. Congratulations to Matevz on an epic flight thus far.
http://www.worldtranssiberia.com/

It amazed me how one branch of the Canadian government wants tourism, and another branch tries to kill it. I would never fly into Canada in a private plane. I've seen the nasty side to Air Canada.

Ya gotta follow the regs in each country. We could say the US is not too friendly to Canadian pilots wanting to visit too. We need a passport now, have to alert prior to entry, flight plan, land at a customs airport and be within 15 minutes on the ETA or you'll get intercepted.

You have to realize that for the most part, Canada is sparsely settled compared to much of the US. When planes go missing, we like to know where to look. Some people have had to foot part of the SAR bill by doing stupid things. C130s can run up big fuel bills!

We get many US pilots lost here in the mountains and not knowing the regs. We help out whenever we can and if you have to land elsewhere, sometimes the RCMP can do a customs clearance for you although you might be asked some questions.

Just for clarification, Air Canada is our big airline, NAV Canada is our privatized ATC and Transport Canada is who you answer to if you get violated by NAV Canada for doing something stupid.