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  #21  
Old 04-11-2017, 07:03 PM
frghtdg frghtdg is offline
 
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"Who dat?"
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  #22  
Old 04-11-2017, 07:20 PM
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Saber25 Saber25 is offline
 
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Talking

[quote=Bill Boyd;1164686]...that a liquid surface (or suspended dice from the rearview mirror) will provide attitude reference in any type of accelerated flight. It just ain't so, else we could rely on our inner ear or seat of the pants to do the same, and we would not be able to pour milk at the top of a loop.

The liquid in the bottle was more for courage than flight attitude . Having an attitude back then probably accounts for many of aviation's advances.

Cheers,

Hans
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  #23  
Old 04-11-2017, 09:34 PM
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Snowflake Snowflake is offline
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cajunwings View Post
FWIW: Saw Sean Tucker at his operation last year and noticed both of the biplanes had Dynon D-10s installed. Since I had one I asked how they were holding up and if they ever "tumbled". He said they were totally reliable and he had never noticed any attitude errors no matter what he did in flight.
I rather suspect he flies his most energetic manoeuvers without reference to any instruments... By the time he wants to look at them again they'll have self-righted. I know i've tumbled my D-10A and it's unlikely i'm doing anything as fun as he does in his biplanes... :P
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  #24  
Old 04-12-2017, 12:59 PM
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dwschaefer dwschaefer is offline
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WA85 View Post
Can't say for sure, but the video you refer to is possibly from spin training I did with CE Cavegnaro in my RV-8. Before anybody gets upset about the Dynon Skyview ADAHRS "tumbling", please go read their excellent Pilot's User Guide, Chapter 4, which states; Attitude Rate Limit - Skyview's ADAHRS will operate normally at rotational rates of up to 150 degrees per second in any axis. If the aircraft's rotational rate exceeds 150 degrees per second, as can happen in a well-developed spin or when performing aggressive aerobatic maneuvers, the PFD page will annunciate "ATTITUDE RECOVERYING".......
The Dynon ADAHRS performance in my RV-8 during spins is considered normal ops for the SKyview and not a safety issue (at least for my installation in my aircraft). I perform spins by looking outside the aircraft for situational awareness, not inside at the SKyview. I have done numerous loops and rolls and the Skyview ADAHRS performs perfectly.....unless I exceed 150 degrees of rate change per second. Go look at a typical gyro driven AI and see what is looks like after a well developed spin / recovery and if comes back to life in 2-3 seconds.
Not pointing fingers .. or anything else at vendors ..I specifically didn't mention vendors to avoid 'mine is better than your's' conversations. Just curious about how glass recovers vs. old mechanical instruments. Thus my question.

Thanks..
DWS
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  #25  
Old 04-12-2017, 02:42 PM
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AAflyer AAflyer is offline
 
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Cool The engine will quit...

Quote:
Originally Posted by HSANTIBANEZ View Post
Dear Bob can you tell me why the engine stops? is carburated? Fuel pump was on?

Best Regards
..if the fuel tanks do not have a baffled compartment, to keep the fuel over the pickup tubes. Without this aerobatic mod, the fuel will 'sling' outboard during a spin, away from the pickup tubes, thereby starving the engine.

I think.
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  #26  
Old 04-12-2017, 06:26 PM
dutchroll dutchroll is offline
 
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I'm not quite sure that glass cockpit AHRS tumbling during aerobatics or spinning is a reason to be concerned about the same happening during an upset in IMC.

If that was a serious problem, then no modern commercial aircraft would be flying IMC, as they all have glass primary instruments and glass standby instruments. In simulator training we get them into some pretty major upsets and they don't go blank or tumble, because the gyro rates simply aren't high enough during that sort of manoeuvring.

Spinning is a different issue though, and gyro tumbling after spinning is not unique to glass instruments. During my military flying training I remember conventional attitude gyros being in all sorts of wonderful attitudes after recovery from a spin. They also didn't automatically regain good attitude information after a few seconds. They had to be manually re-caged while you flew straight and level, which you could only do if you were either in visual conditions, or had good "limited-panel" IMC flying skills.
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  #27  
Old 04-12-2017, 07:38 PM
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bobmarkert bobmarkert is offline
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HSANTIBANEZ View Post
Dear Bob can you tell me why the engine stops? is carburated? Fuel pump was on?

Best Regards
Hernan, It is a high compression IO-375 fuel injected. It only happened that one time. I live in Denver and my airport is at 5673" (KBJC 1,730 m) I was doing spins at 10,000' and I believe I had the engine too lean for that altitude. I believe the prop stopped because it is a low mass composite prop but smarter people than me can chime in.
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  #28  
Old 04-13-2017, 07:52 AM
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Bill Boyd Bill Boyd is offline
 
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Default I was just afraid someone might believe it ;-)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Gash View Post
It's a joke Bill. It was funny back then, and it's still funny now. Nobody is really serious about it.

He also used to tell stories about being over the ocean, half way between Okinawa and the Japanese mainland. Mandatory total radio silence. Then some young guy in the formation would radio: "Who dat?" Then another guy would reply: "Who dat say who dat?" Then another: "Who dat say who dat say who dat?" Finally the old man would get on the radio and yell "Everybody shut the **** up!"

...And an hour later it would start all over again.

Pilot humor. Gotta love it.
My Dad told that story many times. To hear him tell it, the banter originated in the course of 453rd BG operations over Europe. He hated that war and wanted nothing to do with getting into the belly of an airplane ever after, but the man was a bundle of paradoxes, to be sure. My mom surprised him with a tour of a Liberator on static display when he was about 70. He climbed to his top turret position and back out again, looked at her and said, "Sorry, sweetie - it's like a coffin in there..." He was silent the whole drive home. A few years later the vanity tags on his pickup truck bore the message "WHOODAT."

Go figure.
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  #29  
Old 04-13-2017, 09:17 AM
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ChiefPilot ChiefPilot is offline
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dutchroll View Post
I'm not quite sure that glass cockpit AHRS tumbling during aerobatics or spinning is a reason to be concerned about the same happening during an upset in IMC.
I've had the Dynon ADAHRS tumble exactly once in IMC, so it is a potential issue. Comparing an experimental ADAHRS unit from any of the manufacturers to the multiply-redundant, tested-to-h**l-and-back certified equipment used on commercial aircraft may not be a reasonable comparison.
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Last edited by ChiefPilot : 04-18-2017 at 06:37 AM.
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  #30  
Old 04-13-2017, 09:19 AM
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ChiefPilot ChiefPilot is offline
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bobmarkert View Post
Hernan, It is a high compression IO-375 fuel injected. It only happened that one time. I live in Denver and my airport is at 5673" (KBJC 1,730 m) I was doing spins at 10,000' and I believe I had the engine too lean for that altitude. I believe the prop stopped because it is a low mass composite prop but smarter people than me can chime in.
This happens regularly to me when the tanks are at less than 1/2-1/3 full and I do more than 5-6 turns in a spin. I think the fuel simply moves outboard away from the pickups due to centrifugal force.
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