Hartzell Composite vs. Whirlwind Composite

[F1R]

Originally Posted by Bob Martin

Taking 18 lbs off the nose seems like a wonderful thing.
It also made our wallet thinner.

Just curious how the cost of the WW VS the Hartzell VS an MT compares?

Any thoughts about overhaull experiences and costs comparing the 3?

[mulde35d]

I did some research today on overhaul costs and thought I would share the data since I never saw a response to your post.

An MTV-15 2-blade composite overhaul starts around $3,300
An MTV-12 3 blade composite overhaul starts around $4,100
A Whirlwind 74HRT "Teardown Inspection" as they call it starts around $650

I don't have any info on the Hartzell. Of note, the MT TBO is 1,800 or 72 months while the Whirlwind TBO is 600 or 72 months. Seems to me that if you don't fly much and will hit the 72 month mark before the 600 hours then the Whirlwind is significantly less expensive to "inspect / overhaul". I would assume though that if any issues are found during the inspection that the price would quickly go up.

[Bob Martin]

Jon,
Seems like more info needed.
As for me, I sent our WW prop back to WW and stuck with our Hartzel. The HRT74 didn't play well with a James cowling and the long lead times on other options had us wanting to stick with a known quanity for now and update in the future.

But for now......
One thing I noticed in the WW and sure it pertains to all composites in the beautiful finishes. Almost too perfect as to make any imperfection stand out. So when we as pilots or owners think about OH's the question is one, the hub, but 2 is the blades. When a aluminum blade has minor knicks the OH'er can regrind the blade, within limits, and we know what that costs, lets just say 2 to 3K....
Not sure I had heard about costs to repair a composite blade. Now, I don't know and to be fair, in the aluminum blade example above if it's out of limits, it becomes a airboat prop of a wall decoation or a recycleable. And maybe the composite prop can be repaired and repainted when in bad shape, so there are pros and cons. Bottom lines is it seems to be hard to compare apples to apples.

[toninialex]

Hi all,finally the Rotol/Spitfire blade replica 72" was tested on a new RV7 stock 180 HP. It's 19 pounds lighter compared stok metal blasdes and is very very smooth.Here's attached some numbers from the Garmin. Looks not bad,what about your numbers with different prop on same frame/engine combo please?


Thanks,
Alex

[garrys]

I am in the process of converting my RV7A from a Fixed to a C/S prop. I want to go with the Hartzell 74" composite 2blade. Apparently a "stock" Vans cowl accepts the Hartzell (or anyone else's) hub with no problem. However my Sam James cowl is 1 3/4" longer than stock Vans. When using a fixed pitch prop you use a 2 1/4" spacer between the crank/flywheel and the prop hub. I use a 4" spacer on my F.P. Sensenich. I have been unable to determine if Hartzell makes a hub that will fit my Sam James cowl. Vans doesn't seem to know the answer, nor does Sam James. I'm yet to speak to anyone from Hartzell. Has anyone on the forum ever installed a Hartzell composite C/S prop on a Sam James cowl?

[BillL]

Originally Posted by garrys

I am in the process of converting my RV7A from a Fixed to a C/S prop. I want to go with the Hartzell 74" composite 2blade. Apparently a "stock" Vans cowl accepts the Hartzell (or anyone else's) hub with no problem. However my Sam James cowl is 1 3/4" longer than stock Vans. When using a fixed pitch prop you use a 2 1/4" spacer between the crank/flywheel and the prop hub. I use a 4" spacer on my F.P. Sensenich. I have been unable to determine if Hartzell makes a hub that will fit my Sam James cowl. Vans doesn't seem to know the answer, nor does Sam James. I'm yet to speak to anyone from Hartzell. Has anyone on the forum ever installed a Hartzell composite C/S prop on a Sam James cowl?

You should get the dimensions from Hartzell using the flange base as the datum. You will want to know the distance from the datum to the blade at full pitch vs radius. If you want to go fast and reduce the RPM, you will need a different full pitch stop to increase the pitch. Additional pitch means a new curve for clearance. You will need the Hartzell spinner and likely the M hub. "Fitting" depends on your dimensions with your cowl as fitted. While the Vans inlets are set back from the plane of the cowl spinner ring, the James is not, the inlets are even, and therefore closer to the blade.

[Flybipe]

Originally Posted by F1R

Any thoughts about overhaull experiences and costs comparing the 3?

I had a 3 bladed Hartzell composite on my plane. When it was time for an OH I sent it to a well known west coast prop shop for OH and they noted some fine linear indications in the blades that did not penetrate the outer laminate. It looked like it had potentially been clamped too hard on the truck that the prop shop strapped it too when they picked it up. The shop wanted to send the blades to Hartzell for the repair and I ok?d it since they were the manufacturer.

Hartzell red tagged the blades and offered me new blades at a price that exceeded what a new prop would cost. They refused to repair my blades but in red tagging them, permanently xxxx?d out the serial numbers on each blade ensuring no one else would repair them either. Hartzell publishes lots of marketing material stating how these composite blades have an infinite life and are infinitely repairable. I have never been given any reason what so ever as to why they deemed these blades un-airworthy or why they would not repair them.

I then bought a brand new MT three bladed prop. The MT has been trouble free, smooth and looks great. I don?t think it pulls quite as hard as the Hartzell did. I have not had to OH it yet but at 6 years now it throws no grease and the blades are just as tight as when I bought it.

I loved my Hartzell but the fact that they would red tag a set of blades with no reason given means I will likely buy MT for my next plane.

[KatanaPilot]

Originally Posted by garrys

I am in the process of converting my RV7A from a Fixed to a C/S prop. I want to go with the Hartzell 74" composite 2blade. Apparently a "stock" Vans cowl accepts the Hartzell (or anyone else's) hub with no problem. However my Sam James cowl is 1 3/4" longer than stock Vans. When using a fixed pitch prop you use a 2 1/4" spacer between the crank/flywheel and the prop hub. I use a 4" spacer on my F.P. Sensenich. I have been unable to determine if Hartzell makes a hub that will fit my Sam James cowl. Vans doesn't seem to know the answer, nor does Sam James. I'm yet to speak to anyone from Hartzell. Has anyone on the forum ever installed a Hartzell composite C/S prop on a Sam James cowl?

My RV-7A has an extended SJ cowl and the Hartzell composite prop. Per the advice of Kahuna (on this forum), I purchased the prop with the "M" hub through Van's. It adds even more cost to the prop but fits perfectly. My understanding is that Hartzell sets the low pitch stop so interference with the cowl is not an issue. We did force the blades to low pitch when installing the prop to verify. So far I have not had an issue.

Here are the part numbers I used to order -

Prop part #M2R50100X
Spinner part #D-4798P

Hope you are sitting down when you see the price

[garrys]

Thank you Bill and Katana Pilot for the very useful information! I'll be calling Hartzell Monday AM to confirm that they have everything that will work for me. oh yeah, and I'm sure the price will knock me dead!