Calling Van's, or Calling Tech Counselor

[Mel]

I see a lot of advice on these forums that say, "Call Vans". While calling the designer/kit manufacturer is often a good idea when you run into a structural problem is many times good advice, I think sometimes it is overdone. When Van's gets so many calls about minor problems, they get tired of this type of questions and get into the habit of just saying "build on." If you have a minor problem such as "elongated hole" or other simple thing, call your EAA Technical Counselor. As far as that goes, call your TC no matter what the problem. Let HIM/HER make the decision to call Van's. That's what we're here for. We can save you many calls to Van's, and save Van's time to concentrate on the REAL problems

[osxuser]

Originally Posted by Mel

I see a lot of advice on these forums that say, "Call Vans". While calling the designer/kit manufacturer is often a good idea when you run into a structural problem is many times good advice, I think sometimes it is overdone. When Van's gets so many calls about minor problems, they get tired of this type of questions and get into the habit of just saying "build on." If you have a minor problem such as "elongated hole" or other simple thing, call your EAA Technical Counselor. As far as that goes, call your TC no matter what the problem. Let HIM/HER make the decision to call Van's. That's what we're here for. We can save you many calls to Van's, and save Van's time to concentrate on the REAL problems

Guess I need to join EAA :/

[Pirkka]

I agree with Mel.

There are also couple other things I don't like:

People asking same thing from multiple places at same time like: "I sent an email to Van's but I wish to ask same things from the forum too. I did left same question to my Tech Councelor's answering machine as he was not able answer right away." If you are asking from Van's, why would you bother to ask from the forum?! At least you could wait for their answer and then consider twice whether it is worth of sharing with other builders. Technial counselor and Van's should be the first and most reliable sources regarding information about building your plane. This forum, even I believe that not very bad suggestions will be done here (too many pros to correct things if something fatal is planned), should be secondary source of information.

Most things you need to ask are already answered here or Mantronics archives. The search engine of this site isn't great (IMHO) but with some trying you should get answer to most questions. Before you write your question, consider at least these things: did you read the manual, and the whole manual, checked plans couple of times, would you be able to sleep nights if just continue working? How long it takes to get answer rather than trying to figure out things by yourself?

[N8RV]

Well, I'll give you the other side of your complaints, gentlemen. I don't post here very often asking for advice. I bother one or two other builders pretty regularly because there ISN'T an EAA TC anywhere around my area (that I know well enough to call everytime I have a question).

I think I've called Van's tech support maybe 5 times in 10+ years of building.

The online forums are my main source of information. First, I search. However, often times I come up empty because the information that pops up either isn't adequate or isn't found by the search engine for various reasons.

Because I'm not retired, I work. Family responsibilities require travel most of the year. My weekends, when open are the only times I have to work on the plane. If posting a quick question to the community yields an answer in minutes, why does that bother you? If you don't want to answer, skip the post and move on. The beauty of the internet -- and these forums -- is the immediacy of help. While I try to not abuse that convenience and to my research first, I won't hesitate to ask a question just because you don't want to read it. Time is the commodity in short supply in my life right now, and I won't waste it finding answers the hard way if an easier way is available. I hope that makes sense.

I run into the same frustration on other professional forums, and it bothers me when newbies ask questions whose answers are already present in archives. I've learned to suck it up and move on.

[Mel]

If you go back and read my original post, you'll see that I never said anything against the forums. My intention was to lessen the calls to Van's on minor issues. If you need to talk to a TC, by all means call me. I'm here most of the time. 972-784-7544

[N8RV]

I wasn't picking you, Mel, and I appreciate your accessibility.

[Pirkka]

And I didn't mean that you should not ask from the forums. Just noted that the answer likely exists already but not to bother Van's if you are fine with the answer you get from here.

[RV8N]

Originally Posted by osxuser

Guess I need to join EAA :/

I agree with Mel about using tech councelors to answer simple questions (and not so simple ones). I feel that tech councelors are greatly underutilized.

I became a tech councelor because I enjoyed the building process and felt I was very good at it. I also became a tech councelor because I know others don't have the same knowledge as I do and I enjoy helping others and answering questions.

I am not a member of an EAA chapter and don't require builders to be EAA members. Just trying to perform a public service.

Karl

[hevansrv7a]

I spent a couple of years building before I discovered the VAF. I was, and still am, pretty inept in many areas. I called Van's whenever I felt I needed to and often about problems I felt were in the plans or where the directions/plans presented a very difficult situation. I usually got good, patient answers. More to the point, I got them from the designer's staff.

I do get lots of good advice from VAF and hopefully I've contributed some, too. I do try to contribute when I have reason to think I can. VAF covers many topics that Van's will not or cannot. It's a wonderful resource and I consult it almost every day even though I'm now flying.

Shared knowledge is wonderful and shared ignorance is a really bad idea. Knowing which is which can be difficult. I think one has reduced odds of ignorant or wrong answers by consulting Van's. With all due respect to Mel ( I always read anything Mel says!) and the other experts, there is no assurance that they will give you the same answer as will Van's. In which case it's back to "whose advice do you take? And, in what cases?"

An example of this problem was pointed out in a write up I saw on one of those one week empennage classes. The teacher said, in effect, ignore what the factory says; here's how to do it. That kind of advice might be right, but what are the odds? I did not take the class.

Lastly, in calling Van's with an apparent problem with the plans you are possibly helping many other builders down the road. I know I caught several places where their dimensions were wrong.