Aviation Courtesy / Dumb Stunts

[terrye]

I think a large part of the problem is in the "legal" flight demonstrations that pilots, aviation enthusiasts, and the general public see performed at airshows. I think the above people equate "real" flying with what they see there: tight formations, low level aerobatics, etc. The pros make it look so easy and I think this encourages the high risk takers in the pilot population to try it as well. It is not obvious from just watching, how much training and practice the airshow pilots put into their demonstration. Also not obvious is that they have qualified by way of endorsements and waivers to do such flying.

So the high risk takers, thinking "I'm just as good as those guys" goes off and tries it. And if they get away with it a few times, they keep doing it.

Unfortunately, they are not paying attention: even the pros regularly kill themselves at airshows or during practice. This includes high profile military teams like the Blue Angels, Thunderbirds and our own Snowbirds.

In addition to this, practically every aviation book written by a well known aviator lists example after example of risky behavior gotten away with.

I don't have an answer to the showboat pilot, but this may be where their idea to show off comes from.

[jrs14855]

Rule #1 in my book is don't take someone with you. When I was very active in aerobatics I NEVER did low level acro with a passenger. Likewise no low level non acro flying with a passenger.
Around 2006 I was in Bakersfield CA for a few months. Local pilot in a Rocket along with his teen age passenger perished as a result of a low level loop started too low.
In October an RV4 crashed in Ohio, two fatal. NTSB prelim is out, struck a power line at VERY low altitude.
Don't put innocent people at risk, either in your airplane or on the ground and I don't much care what you do.

[mike newall]

Not posting here - but replied direct to Vic and Van on the original link by Doug.

Great article.

I think Lauran missed something subtly and unintentionally as he writes a good article.

Would be interesting to have him post here.

[Jesse]

Originally Posted by Toobuilder

Just thinking out loud here, but where does formation flying fall on this spectrum?

I always regarded formation flying as high risk, completely unnecessary in the civilian world, and rooted in "showing off". And now that I am involved in formation work thanks to a very experienced and professional ex Air Force instuctor, I have seen the light. It is fun, demanding, deadly serious

...and high risk, completely unnecessary, and rooted in showing off.

Yet formation flying has been embraced by this community.

Anybody else see the double standard here?

I was wondering when someone would mention this. Different activities have different levels of risk and perceived risk.

SOme people say it is too risky not to have a checklist that you follow completely every time and never do anything without a checklist. Other people have mental checklists that they go through mentally all the time. Both of these people probably think the other person is crazy, and possibly too risky. I have a friend who spends at least 30-45 minutes predlighting and going through checklists before taking off for a 30 minute flight. Then he gets back to the hangar and outs the plane away and leaves the master on because the checklist doesn't say "turn off master". I have heard that he practically lost control mentally once when an instrument malfunctioned, like a compass or something like that. I have seen other people walk out to their plane after pulling it out of the hangar and climb in a fire it up and takeoff, no preflight, no runup, etc. There truly is great risk at both ends of that spectrum.

[jrs14855]

Don't jump to conclusions because you saw someone pull their airplane out, jump in and go.
I do mostly post flights. The airplane is completely prepared for the next flight. It is kept in a secure one airplane hangar. All I need to do is noet that I don't have a flat tire or fluid leak on the hangar floor and I'm good to go.
Regarding checklists I don't pass judgement on someone based on whether or not they use a checklist. I feel that checklists should always be used in two pilot crews but in many cases inflight checklists done by a single pilot actually compromise safety. It most certainly reduces the time available to scan for traffic.

[rv8ch]

Originally Posted by Bob Kuykendall

Anyhow, the rubric I apply where it comes to intentional misbehavior is this: Does it unduly endanger any who have not made an informed decision to engage in potentially risky activities?

Bob, this is exactly how I think about this. I don't want to infringe on anyone else's rights to do something that I might consider risky, but I believe we all owe it to the uninformed, innocent, and naive to do what we can to ensure that this risky activity does not directly affect them.

[Avengerboss]

Great article , I am not only a RV lover /Owner but a Ultralight pilot/lover for the low and slow flight.
I'd like to add to this discussion about the 1percent of RV owners and their arrogance toward Ultralights/ Lightsport Pilots. . Please go to Facebook and look up "Those Magnificent men and their flying machines". Read some of the Discussions about the treatment Low and Slow gets from RV pilots. I feel this falls right in the same places as the 1 percent of bad pilots doing low acro and killing themselves.
To me owning / building and flying a RV is about as close to sex as it gets (maybe better in some cases! Hahahaha). I also feel the same about Ultralights. Why the appreciation of both types of flying is not the same is beyond me.
The complaints from the low and slow communities has risen in recent time and is almost all about RV owner/ pilots and their attitudes towards L&S..
I'd like to encourage those 1percent that I hope read this and understand that Ultralight pilots have the same passion as you and are just as proud of their aircraft as you and it would be really nice if you show the same respect and compassion as they do you!!
Last but not least and I'll get off my soap box. There is an age old pilot saying: There are OLD PILOTS and there are BOLD PILOTS "BUT" there's "NO OLD BOLD PILOTS"!!
Be safe and have fun🚀🚀🚀🚀

[RV6_flyer]

Originally Posted by Avengerboss

Great article , I am not only a RV lover /Owner but a Ultralight pilot/lover for the low and slow flight.
I'd like to add to this discussion about the 1percent of RV owners and their arrogance toward Ultralights/ Lightsport Pilots. . Please go to Facebook and look up "Those Magnificent men and their flying machines". Read some of the Discussions about the treatment Low and Slow gets from RV pilots. I feel this falls right in the same places as the 1 percent of bad pilots doing low acro and killing themselves.
To me owning / building and flying a RV is about as close to sex as it gets (maybe better in some cases! Hahahaha). I also feel the same about Ultralights. Why the appreciation of both types of flying is not the same is beyond me.
The complaints from the low and slow communities has risen in recent time and is almost all about RV owner/ pilots and their attitudes towards L&S..
I'd like to encourage those 1percent that I hope read this and understand that Ultralight pilots have the same passion as you and are just as proud of their aircraft as you and it would be really nice if you show the same respect and compassion as they do you!!
Last but not least and I'll get off my soap box. There is an age old pilot saying: There are OLD PILOTS and there are BOLD PILOTS "BUT" there's "NO OLD BOLD PILOTS"!!
Be safe and have fun🚀🚀🚀🚀

I have a lot of friends that fit in the L & S catagory. One flys an Ultralight and most of the others fly Champs or Chiefs. A few months back, I pulled up along side a Chief (yes we briefed first) and flew alongside for about 15-minutes so the pilot could get some air to air images / video of my aircraft.

Most RV'ers think I am just a SLOW RV. The 160 HP does not accelerate as fast as their 360s.

[Whitman]

Despite 4K+ hrs and 400 in my RV-4 nobody cares about my opinion. With that said, very nicely done on the article Dick and Vic. Thank you for advocating for safe and responsible enjoyment of these incredible machines.

[Mel]

Originally Posted by jrs14855

Don't jump to conclusions because you saw someone pull their airplane out, jump in and go.
I do mostly post flights. The airplane is completely prepared for the next flight. It is kept in a secure one airplane hangar. All I need to do is noet that I don't have a flat tire or fluid leak on the hangar floor and I'm good to go.
Regarding checklists I don't pass judgement on someone based on whether or not they use a checklist. I feel that checklists should always be used in two pilot crews but in many cases inflight checklists done by a single pilot actually compromise safety. It most certainly reduces the time available to scan for traffic.

So there's no possible chance of rodents, mud daubers, or anything else happening to your airplane since you post flight inspection?

I also do a very thorough post flight inspection, but I still do a preflight.