When do you NOT use flaps landing?

[flyboy1963]

.....so, you guys are all missing the BIG question......

WHY?

I tend to use the 'max lift' setting, about 15 degrees, when gusty or x-wind...but am not sure why.

the wing loading is the same I think....if you are approaching no-flap at 70 kts, yes, a gust will affect you a bit less, but eventually you will transition to 60, then flare, then touchdown at 50 or whatever, all times when a gust can upset you just the same.
I can see the TD guys might want the speed to make a firm wheel landing, but when is more lift a BAD thing, especially if you need to make a go-around?

.....inquiring minds want to hear from the experts!

[rmartingt]

90% of my landings in the -6 are half flap, the other 10% full flap. I can't remember the last time I landed with no flaps. But then, in that airplane there's no flap motor to not work.

[Saville]

Originally Posted by flyboy1963

.....so, you guys are all missing the BIG question......

WHY?

I tend to use the 'max lift' setting, about 15 degrees, when gusty or x-wind...but am not sure why.

You have to figure out why you do that, or how your approach changes.

Do you do it so that you can approach with the same lift but at a lower speed?

Or do you do it to make a steeper approach at the same speed?

If the former, then the gusts will have a larger effect on you. If the latter then there should be no difference.

[PerfTech]

Originally Posted by flyboy1963

.....so, you guys are all missing the BIG question......

WHY?

I tend to use the 'max lift' setting, about 15 degrees, when gusty or x-wind...but am not sure why.

the wing loading is the same I think....if you are approaching no-flap at 70 kts, yes, a gust will affect you a bit less, but eventually you will transition to 60, then flare, then touchdown at 50 or whatever, all times when a gust can upset you just the same.
I can see the TD guys might want the speed to make a firm wheel landing, but when is more lift a BAD thing, especially if you need to make a go-around?

.....inquiring minds want to hear from the experts!

...The reason why you don't use your flaps in gusty conditions is to help eliminate float, and increase touch down speed. This widens the safety margin for stall speed. Thanks, Allan..

[ArVeeNiner]

Unless I'm practicing no flap landings, I use full flaps every time I land. Why? Because Mike Seager told me to.

[Bevan]

Every landing is a flap landing unless the flaps are broken or training for flapless landings.

The use of flaps on an RV is no different than any other GA aircraft. If you're not sure why (and how much) flap to use on landing, maybe get with an instructor and go over some basics. Kinda hard to teach flying online but here's my take on landings...worth less that what you have paid for it....

-The ultimate goal of landing is to stop flying (safely).
-To stop flying, one must slow down and approach the ground.
-This requires more precise (maybe just different) flying skills than cruising.
-Crosswinds become more of a factor as your forward speed declines and you need to maintain track over the runway and aircraft generally aligned with direction of travel over said runway.
-The first amount of flap is to increase lift (enabling you to slow down even more), and adds some drag, and lowers the nose resulting in better visibility.
-Going to Full flap basically adds more drag which helps with speed control. In the slow speed regime, pitch now controls speed, and power now controls rate of descent.
-After touchdown, the flaps and the slower speed allows shorter roll, less energy (you want to stop afterall) with less (maybe no) use of brakes saving them for whenn you really need them.
-The above is for normal landings. Now, If you have crosswinds, it will be more challenging to control track and heading over the runway at touchdown. Reducing some flap, increases stall speed thereby reducung the crosswinds effect (a little) allowing better control but the trade off is more speed on runway, more brakes, longer (possibly much longer) stopping distance etc.
-Gusts are probably a more significant factor. Add 1/2 the gust factor to your approach speed and flaps (less than normal) to suit that higher stall speed.


Practice practice practice for consistency and variable conditions.

Bevan
Not a CFI but I...

[flyboy1963]

Originally Posted by PerfTech

...The reason why you don't use your flaps in gusty conditions is to help eliminate float, and increase touch down speed. This widens the safety margin for stall speed. Thanks, Allan..

hey, love the discussion Allan....
let's say I approach 'no flap' at 70, stall is 55, margin is thus 15.
If I approach at 70, half flap, stall is 50, margin is now 20, so I can tolerate more gust/shear without 'dropping' it in.
also would say more flap = less float, especially if you shave 5 kts off the approach speed, still have the margin, but on the ground sooner.
maybe.....
maybe not?

[luddite42]

Originally Posted by PerfTech

...The reason why you don't use your flaps in gusty conditions is to help eliminate float, and increase touch down speed. This widens the safety margin for stall speed. Thanks, Allan..

Disagree. Flaps up increases potential float because it lessens deceleration in ground effect due to reduced drag.

[ChiefPilot]

Originally Posted by PerfTech

...The reason why you don't use your flaps in gusty conditions is to help eliminate float, and increase touch down speed. This widens the safety margin for stall speed. Thanks, Allan..

[jfrank71]

I think it has a lot to do with the airplane. In the RV-10, solo or two up front, 0-20 degree flap landings make it much easier to keep the nose wheel off the ground. If I have four passengers and luggage, the I can use full flaps and still keep the nose up pretty easy. Wind plays a factor too. High winds usually mean less flaps and less float. My suggestions is practice multiple configurations in different conditions and see what works best for you and your RV. Main thing is to be safe and enjoy flying!