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  #1  
Old 09-16-2016, 12:44 AM
JoeBlank's Avatar
JoeBlank JoeBlank is offline
 
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Location: Molalla, Oregon (KOL05)
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Default Deadstick Landings - Alvord Desert

Had a little time on my hands to finish up some raw video projects...

The Alvord Desert is possibly one of the best places to practice your deadstick landings in a variety of configurations.

Caution: Don't screw up! It's a long walk home...

https://youtu.be/_-FfzQnDh_M

Moderators: Feel free to delete if determined to be too sketchy...
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  #2  
Old 09-16-2016, 12:58 AM
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Ironflight Ironflight is offline
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Not sketchy at all in my book Joe - dead stick landings is what lake beds are made for!

Just push over to 300 knots, start a pre flare at 2,000', settle in to a 0.5 degree glide slope and touchdown about 205.....oh wait a minute, that was the old job.....

Regardless - good lake beds are the single best place to practice - lots of leeway if you are short or long!
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  #3  
Old 09-16-2016, 07:42 AM
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Joe:

Thanks for taking the time to share this with us.
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  #4  
Old 09-16-2016, 10:48 AM
BillL BillL is offline
 
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Nice!! No drama.

Thanks Joe.
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  #5  
Old 09-16-2016, 01:21 PM
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Great job as always Joe!
Thank you for sharing.
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  #6  
Old 09-16-2016, 02:13 PM
Adrian Bonwitt Adrian Bonwitt is offline
 
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Smile

Really amazing just how much space you have out there, to be able to go to an area and do stuff like that.

I've done 8 hrs flying today, just chilling with a beer... I'm watching the video, the flaps come down, all looking nice..then suddenly round finals I think...hey put the gear down..Then jump back to reality and realize the camera angle doesn't show the gear..oh well, least I thought about it..

Bet it is strange bumping along the lake bed, in total silence, lots of different noises that you don't normally get to hear from your RV.
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  #7  
Old 09-16-2016, 02:16 PM
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Jerry Cochran Jerry Cochran is offline
 
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Default Rollout?

Joe,

Did you use a higher landing speed? Looked like a long rollout...What speed did you glide at?

Jerry
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  #8  
Old 09-16-2016, 05:04 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jerry Cochran View Post
Joe,

Did you use a higher landing speed? Looked like a long rollout...What speed did you glide at?

Jerry
All,

My thoughts...

Caution! Caution! Caution!
This is NOT a how to procedure on how to do this safely.
Don't try this is you are not a consummate aviation expert in your aircraft and the landing conditions are as close to perfect as possible. Observe and follow all FAR's , applicable regulations, and consult a CFI before attempting any flight activities referred to here
.

Remember, assume in this setting you are miles away from 'help' so ultimate caution is advised. Perhaps the best approach is with a several other pilots as a team for safety reasons. You can each take turns and document landings...

DA is also something to be cognizant of since this lakebed is at 4K'. I generally practice in the cool, still morning air to keep the DA as low as possible. Also, don't try 'nuthin' stupid either...

OK back to the flying...
I first defined several different drag parameters and landing configs in which to fly the practice approaches. Obviously the first goal is to be very consistent at just normal landings to establish a good/safe landing procedure baseline. There will be a couple of additional steps included in your emergency landing checklist (which you should develop and use) that you will want to brief on the ground before trying this for the first go. Drill it as many times as it takes on the ground to get perfect there. What you actually end up doing on the ground is what you will habitually tend to do in the air. Bad habits should be corrected on the ground...

Flying the tests:
Here are some of the configurations that I've played with over time. I couldn't identify any additional that would change drag and airspeed profiles, but I may have missed one or two.
  • Prop windmillling-Flat pitch
  • Prop windmillling-Course Pitch
  • Prop stopped
  • No-Flaps
  • Full Flaps
  • Full stall-3 point landing
  • Wheel landing
  • Braking-Yes
  • Braking-No

All of the drag profiles will produce different 'best glide' speeds, so it will take some playing with to define them all. Of course if you have an EFIS, it will record the data for you and you can study/correlate the data at a later time. By pulling the power up at higher altitudes you can have some time to play with the different conditions. I've probably shot 15-20 of these and continued to refine the technique. The theory, in a real emergency, you can use all of the techniques to maximize your performance for a safe landing. There are different techniques to 'add or bleed energy' from a situation but best to practice this up high. Reaching for the throttle is not one of them (with a dead engine). I think the KISS principle certainly applies here though and increases safety and that's the ultimate goal.

The ultimate goal of the exercise, I think, is to be able to land as close to a prescribed 'target' on the desert floor with enough airspeed margin to not cause an excessive sink rate or ground roll.

With that said, do not risk a landing bounce or lack of energy in the bottom of the flare since you don't have any power reserves available to correct it. Short span, fat profile airfoils like what RV's use, quickly bleed a lot of energy in this flight regime. Be careful!

Most of my approaches tend to be flown with a VREF around 75 IAS mph in a RV-6 weighing ~1,400 lbs. In this case, TAS was probably around 80 mph. (Like I said, don't get it too slow too soon) Once in ground effect I can reduce/finesse the speeds to effect a touchdown speed that is low as possible.

In the associated video the other parameters were prop-stopped, full flaps, wheel landing, no braking used. You can easily 'step off' your ground roll distance once you're stopped.

Remember to turn the Master Off though, or the walk could get a lot longer...

Fly safe...
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  #9  
Old 09-16-2016, 05:13 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ironflight View Post
Not sketchy at all in my book Joe - dead stick landings is what lake beds are made for!

Just push over to 300 knots, start a pre flare at 2,000', settle in to a 0.5 degree glide slope and touchdown about 205.....oh wait a minute, that was the old job.....

Regardless - good lake beds are the single best place to practice - lots of leeway if you are short or long!
Paul,

Had a tough time getting the RV-6 to 300 KTS in the push, so I backed off...

Probably worked great though with the shuttle profile...
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  #10  
Old 09-19-2016, 09:35 AM
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Brings back fond memories of being there with you Joe!
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