RV-6 Spins... Yeah this again.

[bret]

Originally Posted by ChiefPilot

I have explored spins quite a bit in my -6A, up to and including 14-turn upright spins both left and right along with flattened and inverted spins (sucks cleaning quarts of oil off the belly, but I wanted to validate recovery from that situation).

No issues with either PARE or Finigan (which is what I usually use) but not a fan of Beggs-Mueller in my -6A. It's the slowest to recover from a fully developed spin, taking three rotations or more. PARE or Finigan each took slightly less than two rotations.

With less than half-full fuel tanks, expect the engine to start windmilling after 6-8 turns because to fuel starvation due to fuel moving to the outboard sides of the fuel tanks.

Interesting on the fuel starvation part, never thought about that before....I use to go out and spin the little 152 all the time, can I expect similar recovery characteristics in my 7a? or will it just be a faster rotation rate?

[jrs14855]

Delete: Stomp
Add: smoothly but aggressively, sometimes VERY aggressively.

[jrs14855]

Regarding hands on recovery, I really dislike the technique of recovery with rudder and forward stick applied simultaneously. If one gets mixed up and inadvertently leads with forward stick the spin may accelerate quite rapidly. There is the potential, especially with relatively inexperienced pilots, to apply forward stick and then become so surprised by the results that full opposite rudder is not applied.

[ChiefPilot]

Originally Posted by bret

Interesting on the fuel starvation part, never thought about that before....I use to go out and spin the little 152 all the time, can I expect similar recovery characteristics in my 7a? or will it just be a faster rotation rate?

Faster rotation rate, delayed recovery when fully developed, and much quicker acceleration when pulling out of the dive during spin recovery. I remember it being difficult to keep a Cessna in a proper spin at times since it wouldn't always want to stay stalled. My -6A isn't like that *at all*.

[Foxmoth]

1. THROTTLE - IDLE
2. FORCE THE CONTROLS TO NEUTRAL
3. WAIT FOR 100 KNOTS
4. RECOVER FROM THE DIVE

This will NOT work for all aircraft, the dHC1 Chipmunk springs to mind, recovers fine using PARE but often will NOT recover until you have FULL forward CC!
Also of interest was the spin tests on our RV7, recovery was fine to the left, first spin to the right the prop stopped (at height with full rich mixture), recovery was not possible with ANY of the methods discussed with the engine stopped, as soon as I restarted the engine recovery was almost instantaneous!

[ronschreck]

Originally Posted by Foxmoth

Also of interest was the spin tests on our RV7, recovery was fine to the left, first spin to the right the prop stopped (at height with full rich mixture), recovery was not possible with ANY of the methods discussed with the engine stopped, as soon as I restarted the engine recovery was almost instantaneous!

Something is wrong here! Normal spin recovery is accomplished with the engine at IDLE power. There should be no difference in the recovery with the prop stopped. I would like to hear more about your spin test methods.

[ronschreck]

1. THROTTLE - IDLE
2. FORCE THE CONTROLS TO NEUTRAL
3. WAIT FOR 100 KNOTS
4. RECOVER FROM THE DIVE

Originally Posted by Foxmoth

This will NOT work for all aircraft, the dHC1 Chipmunk springs to mind, recovers fine using PARE but often will NOT recover until you have FULL forward CC!

Did you mean to say "FULL forward stick"? If you meant to say "FULL forward CG" I don't know how you would change CG in flight. Any other Chipmunk pilots care to chime in here?

This might be a good time to reinforce the importance of FORCING the controls to neutral in this recovery method authored by Bill Finagin. If you simply release fore/aft pressure on the stick this will not always put the elevator in the neutral position. (In a well-developed spin my RV-8 stick will stay nearly full aft when released!) You must FORCE the stick to a neutral position such that the elevator is aligned with the horizontal stabilizer. One way to insure this in your RV is to notice the actual stick position when the elevator is neutral and note this position relative to the instrument panel.

[tomww]

Originally Posted by ronschreck

1. THROTTLE - IDLE
2. FORCE THE CONTROLS TO NEUTRAL
3. WAIT FOR 100 KNOTS
4. RECOVER FROM THE DIVE



Did you mean to say "FULL forward stick"? If you meant to say "FULL forward CG" I don't know how you would change CG in flight. Any other Chipmunk pilots care to chime in here?

This might be a good time to reinforce the importance of FORCING the controls to neutral in this recovery method authored by Bill Finagin. If you simply release fore/aft pressure on the stick this will not always put the elevator in the neutral position. (In a well-developed spin my RV-8 stick will stay nearly full aft when released!) You must FORCE the stick to a neutral position such that the elevator is aligned with the horizontal stabilizer. One way to insure this in your RV is to notice the actual stick position when the elevator is neutral and note this position relative to the instrument panel.

I took full forward cc to mean "full forward Control Column".

[sandifer]

Originally Posted by Foxmoth

This will NOT work for all aircraft, the dHC1 Chipmunk springs to mind, recovers fine using PARE but often will NOT recover until you have FULL forward CC!

Yes, there are aircraft that will not recover all spin modes using this 'Finagin' technique. The Yak 52 is another well known example that will not recover a developed flat spin using this technique. This neutral control technique as advocated by Bill Finagin was specifically developed for use as an emergency recovery technique for any possible spin mode in a properly loaded Pitts. He never advocated it as a guaranteed universal spin recovery technique in all aircraft. To your point, this is worth noting. I suspect this technique would work for all spin modes in RVs, but have not seen a flight test report using this technique across the entire spin matrix in an RV.

[Foxmoth]

Something is wrong here! Normal spin recovery is accomplished with the engine at IDLE power. There should be no difference in the recovery with the prop stopped. I would like to hear more about your spin test methods.

Spin was IMHO very standard - at light buffet, full rudder and up elevator, the prop stopped as the aircraft autorotated, when I restarted it was at low power and recovered immediately on engine restart, following this I leaned the mixture and recovery was normal with engine at idle.