Lycoming vs Continental Titan -IO540

[steve murray]

Had a great time as Osh last week, one of my goals was to pick and engine supplier. I am a lot smarter on the topic vs a week ago buts still pretty ignorant overall and would greatly appreciate the input of others.

I really want to run Mogas, I plan on stock 8.5 compression, electronic ignition and will be plumbing the fuel system with a return line to accept electronic fuel injection. A Lycoming thru Van's is a viable alternative but would require modifications along with pulling parts and selling (mags, fuel injection system etc.) as they will not customize.

Continental seems very open for building with electronic ignition and electronic fuel injection (supplied by others)

I would appreciate the comments on others of the pros\cons of using a Lycoming IO540 vs. Contiental Titan IO540 as I understand there are some differences in cylinders and some components are offered in Magnesium for weight reduction (accy cover) and intake manifold\sump.

Thanks

Steve

[BobTurner]

I'm certainly no expert, but I suggest you start with the easy stuff:
1. Check weight. I think the TCM is heavier, and the -10 is already a nose-heavy airplane.
2. Check dimensions. I think the TCM hangs down lower, relative to the crankshaft flange, than the Lycoming (due to cam below vs cam above crank). This may bring up issues with nose gear strut clearance.
3. The inductions are different. For sure you will be designing your own cowling inlet, filter, etc. design.
4. Probably a different engine mount (?).

None of this is insurmountable, but does require thought and work.

[steve murray]

Hey Bob

My understanding from Continental guys is their Titan version is a clone almost the same size same weight same intake, I even asked him about the baffling and they said stock vans should work fine. Maybe a little bit of adjustment around there cylinders which are slightly different shape.

I was quite surprised the continental makes lycoming clone.

Steve

[Kyle Boatright]

Originally Posted by BobTurner

I'm certainly no expert, but I suggest you start with the easy stuff:
1. Check weight. I think the TCM is heavier, and the -10 is already a nose-heavy airplane.
2. Check dimensions. I think the TCM hangs down lower, relative to the crankshaft flange, than the Lycoming (due to cam below vs cam above crank). This may bring up issues with nose gear strut clearance.
3. The inductions are different. For sure you will be designing your own cowling inlet, filter, etc. design.
4. Probably a different engine mount (?).

None of this is insurmountable, but does require thought and work.

The Titan O-540 is a clone of the Lycoming O-540. It is a bolt in replacement. None of the factors listed above are at work here...

I've toured the Continental/ECI/Titan factory. I'm not an expert on engine factories, but am a manufacturing guy and an engineer, and it seemed like they had their bases covered.

On the other hand, I've spoken with several prominent shops which build up "kit" engines and rebuild engines for the experimental market. They seem reluctant to use Titan/ECI/Continental parts, but when I ask for specifics as to why, I don't get a lot of information. One interesting question posed to me by one of the well known rebuild shops when I mentioned Titan was something to the effect of "Do they have a counterbalanced 540 crank yet?". That's on my list of questions to ask the next time I talk with the Titan guys and gals.

[Kyle Boatright]

Originally Posted by steve murray

Hey Bob

<snip>

I was quite surprised the continental makes lycoming clone.

Steve

Continental bought out ECI a year or so ago. ECI made PMA'd parts for both Continental and Lycoming engines, plus a line of Lyclones marketed under the Titan brand. The purchase presumably took one competitor off of the table for Continental parts, and gave Continental a foothold in the Lycoming market.

Here's AVweb's take:

http://www.avweb.com/avwebflash/news...-224034-1.html

[steve murray]

"Do they have a counterbalanced 540 crank yet?". That's on my list of questions to ask the next time I talk with the Titan guys and gals.[/quote]

Kyle, can you comment on the benefits of a counterbalanced 540 crank?

If Continental does not have one on the IO540 is it a choice, patent issue or other? (I am assuming Lycoming has a counterbalance crank?) Sorry if these are basic questions, I am at the beginning of my learning curve...

Steve

[Kyle Boatright]

Originally Posted by steve murray

Kyle, can you comment on the benefits of a counterbalanced 540 crank?

If Continental does not have one on the IO540 is it a choice, patent issue or other? (I am assuming Lycoming has a counterbalance crank?) Sorry if these are basic questions, I am at the beginning of my learning curve...

Steve

I am no expert on crankshafts. My understanding (mostly from looking at the TCDS's on O and IO-540's) is that there are several different crankshaft counterweight configurations and they are tailored to different applications/prop's. In my search for a -540, I've used the TCDS for the IO-540 D4A5 as the gold standard, and have looked for an engine or crank that matches the one on that engine or can be modified to match it.

Here's the TCDS on the parallel valve IO-540's:

http://rgl.faa.gov/Regulatory_and_Guidance_Library/rgMakeModel.nsf/0/ffae5a2bb5506dcc8625747a00650001/$FILE/1E4.pdf

You can go to the end of the document and determine all of the internal differences between the various models.

[DanH]

Originally Posted by Kyle Boatright

The Titan O-540 is a clone of the Lycoming O-540. It is a bolt in replacement.

"Do they have a counterbalanced 540 crank yet?". That's on my list of questions to ask the next time I talk with the Titan guys and gals.

It is a clone, other than the differences familiar to any 4-cyl Titan owner.

Both Lycoming and Titan 540 cranks are equipped with pendulum absorbers. They have nothing to do with balance. I'm just sayin'.

Quite a few Titan (or ECI, or Continental San Antonio..please Mr. Management, make up your mind!) parts are intended to be PMA replacements...same as Lycoming, but cheaper. You see some crazy things at Continental these days. Here's an example. They can sell you the cylinder too:

[steve murray]

There were a few differences vs Lycoming that the sales guy mentioned would like to get comments on the pros\cons of each

- magnesium accy cover case (available only if "heavy" accy items are not to be used"... I think he was referring to large backup alternators) and magnesim sump --- are there pros\cons to magnesium beyond weight & cost.... someone mentioned to me magnesium has corrosion issues....not sure if this a an old wive's tale.??


- Different porting on the cylinders (not sure if this was intake or exhaust or both?)

- Different cylinder fin geometry on portion of the cylinder closest to the case to promote more cooling

- Different material on cylinder internal walls?

Not sure what is real and what is salesperson selling?? Would appreciate input from those more knowledgable than me.

Steve

[DanH]

Originally Posted by steve murray

- magnesium accy cover case (available only if "heavy" accy items are not to be used"... I think he was referring to large backup alternators) and magnesim sump --- are there pros\cons to magnesium beyond weight & cost.... someone mentioned to me magnesium has corrosion issues....not sure if this a an old wive's tale.??

In this context, an OWT. A million VW's can't be wrong

Different porting on the cylinders (not sure if this was intake or exhaust or both?)

Venturi valve seats. Without a flow bench, nobody knows. For sure, they don't matter much if the seat material doesn't match the port wall, and that can happen.

- Different cylinder fin geometry on portion of the cylinder closest to the case to promote more cooling

Less fin area near the cylinder bases, less cooling, PITA to baffle well as compared to non-tapered fins.

- Different material on cylinder internal walls?

Nickel carbide, vs hardened steel.