Thielert Centurion 2.0

[Pirkka]

Today Thielert has announced that they will replace 1.7 Centurions with 2.0 engines.

"The company already started series production of the Centurion 2.0 und Centurion 4.0 aircraft piston engines in the last quarter. The Centurion 2.0 is the latest development stage of the Centurion 1.7 and has also 135 PS. The latter engine has in recent years made a considerable contribution to the growth and success of the company, with over 1,500 units delivered for general aviation.
In the Centurion 2.0, Thielert has been able to demonstrate that the proven and reliable design is upwardly compatible. The new engine will in future replace the Centurion 1.7 in all installations. The Centurion 2.0 has a greater engine capacity, particularly in order to meet the requirements of the US market. Thielert has developed a own engine block in the course of the development and approval process, which is especially designed to meet the demands of aviation. The European and US aviation authorities approved the engine in August and October 2006. Similarly, the Centurion 2.0 has been approved for installation in the Cessna 172 since August last year. The Centurion 2.0 is supplied to plane manufacturer Diamond Aircraft Industries as an installation kit, and built into the successful DA40 TDI and DA42 aircraft. Diamond is experiencing strong growth and has customer orders stretching beyond the end of 2007. Planning security for the Thielert AG companies is also further improved in 2007 by a second major and several minor OEM companies."

What I don't understand is that development is increasing cubic inches as demand of States (yeah, the fuel is cheap for you) with what benefits? I also haven't noticed this at their website earlier (it may have been there or even discussed here):

"The development of installations for kit and experimental airplanes will be arranged with all major kit airplane OEMs on their demand.

Our engines show a higher complexity than what you find with conventional engines. To cover this deliberately as well as the different electrical system arrangements the installations will be developed according to regulations and procedures as you find in certified aircraft. This means for the installer that a most reliable system and safest operation is ensured. However, distribution of engines and installation kit will be arranged exclusively through our distribution partners and OEMs.

Please contact the appropriate airframe kitplane manufacturers directly for any available information. For further information please visit the different sections on our website."

Edit: So if we want to have Thielerts in our planes, we should ask them from Van's. Even they are not alternative engine supporters, propably the fact that these are certified might help us. However price is big question: Just head that local parachuters has shown interest for Centurion 4.0 for their C206. The first engine would be around $150k and second $60k and as delivery of those 4.0s has just started, the TBO maybe something else than 2000 hours... However, flying would become much easier as when you want to go up, throttle up and when you want down, throttle down... everything else is pretty much automatic.

For more information, check their website: http://www.centurion-engines.com/
and news from 5th Jan 2007 and Centurion 1.7 -> Centurion 1.7 for kitplanes and experimentals.

[mdredmond]

We'll never be able to buy new Thielerts because they'll never talk Van's into working with them on a FWF.

I'd kill for a good diesel engine.

[RVbySDI]

I would love to run behind a diesel engine but not at $60,000.00 or more for installation costs. It is bad enough that the Lyclone installation will run upwards to $30,000.00 or more. I am sure Theilert is not interested in working their butts off to sell to a cheaper market than they currently are attempting to sell to. Most of the world thinks of us Yanks as rich folks anyway so we should be busting at the seams to pay high 5 figures for a diesel engine to place on our expensive toys and be happy doing it.

[Pilottonny]

"I'd kill for a good diesel engine"

Matt, me to !

Its up to us, builders, to convince Vans to make a deal with Thielert (they know each other, but are not getting together to get the FWF kit sorted and ad the "Thielert diesel engine" - option to the catalogue!). The only other choice we have is Wilksch, but it sure takes a long time for them to "deliver" what they are promising! (and no FWF-kit, so far, either)

Still deciding on my engine, got the return lines to the tanks, for the diesel, installed though! May have to decide on a "mo-gas" engine instead (Avgas = EUR 2,05/lt !!!) if the diesels do not get available soon.

[mdredmond]

Well hopefully the Thielert 2.0 with FAA certification will be enough to convince Van's that it's a safe engine. I'm not holding my breath though - Van seems pretty stubborn on this issue.

[pfactor]

I too would like to see the diesel make a run...

I have heard the EU? is going to raise taxes on the diesel (UK rumor?) , but will still be cheaper than 100LL I would imagine.

Could the 'uncertified' engine be any cheaper?

Prices CENTURION 1.7

Price excl. labor and all taxes
* excluding cost for installation labor

CENTURION 1.7
? Jet fuel piston engine CENTURION 1.7
? 14 V FADEC system and wiring harness
? gearbox, turbo charger, prop governor, vacuum pump, alternator, belt, starter
? certification

25,960 EUR

25,960 EUR X 1.30 (current exchange) = $33,748

CENTURION 1.7
? Jet fuel piston engine CENTURION 1.7
? 28 V FADEC system and wiring harness
? gearbox, turbo charger, prop governor, vacuum pump, alternator, belt, starter
? certification

27,510 EUR

New CENTURION 1.7 after 2,400 hr operating time / TBR
? Jet fuel piston engine CENTURION 1.7 without instruments
? 14 V FADEC system and wiring harness
? gearbox, turbo charger, prop governor, vacuum pump, alternator, belt, starter
? certification

20,319 EUR

New CENTURION 1.7 after 2,400 hr operating time / TBR
? Jet fuel piston engine CENTURION 1.7 without instruments
? 28 V FADEC system and wiring harness
? gearbox, turbo charger, prop governor, vacuum pump, alternator, belt, starter
? certification

21,868 EUR


Replace avgas engine with CENTURION 1.7 in Cessna 172 Ready-to-fly jet fuel piston engine CENTURION 1.7 completely pre-assembled "firewall forward"-unit including 950 parts:

40,470 EUR*

? 14 V FADEC system
? Engine periphery: gearbox, propeller, prop governor, turbo charger, coolant system, engine mounts, single lever control, vacuum pump, alternator, belt, starter and wiring harness.
? engine and aircraft instruments
? certification
? Long range kit
for Cessna K, L, M, N
425 EUR

Replace avgas engine with CENTURION 1.7 in Cessna 172 Ready-to-fly jet fuel piston engine CENTURION 1.7 completely pre-assembled "firewall forward"-unit including 950 parts:

42,120 EUR*

? 28 V FADEC system
? Engine periphery: gearbox, propeller, prop governor, turbo charger, coolant system, engine mounts, single lever control, vacuum pump, alternator, belt, starter and wiring harness.
? engine and aircraft instruments
? certification
? Long range kit for Cessna N, P
425 EUR

ALSO:
Recently we have announced the development of the CENTURION 3.2 with 230 hp. - ---- RV10?

[Pilottonny]

Pfactor, I am not bothered about their price, you?ll have the difference back in a couple of hundred hours flying! And remember, there are a bunch more advantages! I wish we would be able to buy them!

BTW, the tax thing is a well known instrument used by to days politicians: give the people something they can save money on and then......... tax it !, makes millions for the state. I do not even bother to vote anymore at the elections !

Regards, PilotTonny

[mlw450802]

Originally Posted by Pirkka

...What I don't understand is that development is increasing cubic inches as demand of States (yeah, the fuel is cheap for you) ...

As you know, it's cheap world wide. It's just the taxes that get you.
I know, bottom line is still what grabs the pocket book.
-mike

[Dave Cole]

I don't understand the excitement. If the Centurion 2.0 is only 135 hp at sea level takeoff power, who would want one in an RV? That kind of defeats the "Total Performance" concept. In time, you may recover the extra cost of the engine with fuel savings, but the operational limitations represent an additional "cost" that would be unacceptable to me.

[David-aviator]

Originally Posted by Dave Cole

I don't understand the excitement. If the Centurion 2.0 is only 135 hp at sea level takeoff power, who would want one in an RV? That kind of defeats the "Total Performance" concept. In time, you may recover the extra cost of the engine with fuel savings, but the operational limitations represent an additional "cost" that would be unacceptable to me.

I agree, the economics don't make much sense at this point.

Jet fuel is not cheap and in fact costs more than mogas. Thielert announced the 1.7 enginge 172 swap out deal - why would anyone want to go deisel at 135 HP and a cost of around $55,000? Sure the cost per hour would go down, but it would take longer to get anywhere so where is the savings? Beside that, most real pilots would rather fly a RV, not a slow-slow ho-hum Cessna.

At least Thielert is moving forward which is more than can be said for Zoch or Deltahawk. But they are priced out of much of the home built market and RV won't jump on that band wagon soon. His bread and butter has been a very fine line of airplanes at a reasonable price. There is nothing reasonable about the price of these engines in this market and he does not need it to sell RV airplanes.