Do you flap to OSH?

[Ironflight]

Originally Posted by ExtraKatana

I like Turbo's answer. As long as I'm not directly over Fiske. Every year I hear some rightfully frustrated folks saying "C'mon folks 90 Knots". Anyone do 135kts at 2300? Does Fiske have any problems seeing an RV up there?

See, this is a problem - people deciding to make up their own procedures at the busiest airport in the world! Fly the NOTAM, if ATC directs you otherwise, then that's fine - but the procedure says single file inside RIPON and passing isn't single file. I've had too many people do their own thing on this route to support free-lancing.

The close calls I've had on this approach have ALL been becasue someone thought that they were special, and didn't have to follow the NOTAM.

[rvbuilder2002]

Originally Posted by Auburntsts

Not saying it's right or that I would do it myself, but just pointing out that things are not cut and dried so be prepared for anything.

Exactly

But, if everyone that was able to fly the correct speed did........ and properly maintained the correct altitude........ and actually flew over the railroad track (do you know that if you are looking out the side at them you are not over them as per the NOTAM? ) there would be very few problems. It is actually a very well developed process that has evolved over many years of usage and adjustment.

When people don't do what they are supposed to do, and then others start to do their own thing as a result, things can go down the toilet very quickly.

[ExtraKatana]

I like the answer but I have never deviated from the Notam. I have pointed the nose up and done 65kts behind the 172 that didn't read the Notam.
They were certainly able of going faster.

[Walt]

Originally Posted by Ironflight

See, this is a problem - people deciding to make up their own procedures at the busiest airport in the world! Fly the NOTAM, if ATC directs you otherwise, then that's fine - but the procedure says single file inside RIPON and passing isn't single file. I've had too many people do their own thing on this route to support free-lancing.

The close calls I've had on this approach have ALL been becasue someone thought that they were special, and didn't have to follow the NOTAM.

Amen Brother!

[DanH]

Anyone do 135kts at 2300? Does Fiske have any problems seeing an RV up there?

The controllers accept all kinds of stupid stuff, including RV drivers who think they need to be on the 135 knot high approach.

The single most dangerous thing a pilot can do at OSH is descend into the 1800 ft nose-to-tail stream when approaching the field. It's a blind descent, with a speed difference. There is no provision for a safe merge. You either do it blind on the run-in after Fisk, or wait and hope you get some controller help on downwind....and there is no downwind if landing 09 or 36L/R

Passing? Passing is nothing compared to that vertical merge.

Yeah, I know, the question comes up every year. Yeah, you can legally do it. Yeah, some builders have oil temperature problems at 90 knots they should have fixed in Phase 1. Yeah, it might make you feel like a sky god, passing all the mere mortals slogging along below. Fact is, it's for airplanes that cannot fly 90 knots ("If unable.."). It's not for pilots who lack skills, or have big egos, or fly substandard RV's.

Rant OFF.

[krw5927]

Originally Posted by rvbuilder2002

Yes, even the 9, but I will clarify......

My personal RV-6A has manual flaps. Half flaps (20 degrees) for the type of flight condition we are talking about is way too much. It just causes more drag which requires more power usage and potentially higher engine temps. It is for this reason that I have a flap indexer that also has a 10 degree position. This is about what I use for all of the short wing RV's.

The RV-9 and 10 have much larger flaps that produce a lot more pitching moment than the flaps on the short wing RV's (that is largely why the horizontal tails are so much larger than the others).
On the RV-9 I use what is probably about 5 degrees. On the RV-10 I un-reflex the flaps plus add just a bit more so it probably ends up being about 5 degrees also.

The primary reason I do this is to reduce the deck angle slightly, not to effect the stall speed (which a small amount of flaps has little to no effect on anyway).
The reduced deck angle (because of the reduced wing AOA) improves over the nose visibility, and it makes the airplane feel a bit less mushy.

Before using this technique flying the Fisk arrival, I recommend people practice before hand and see what works best for them.

Went out this morning in the 9A to get power settings nailed for 90 kts and try the 5 degrees of flaps Scott mentioned. Plus any time is a good time to brush up on maneuvers and slow flight. Just haven't spend much time "cruising" at 90 kts indicated. What I found was, while 90 kts might be right on that "flap/no flap" line for other models, the RV9 is simply rock solid and happy as a clam without any flaps at 90. 5 deg flaps does reduce the deck angle ever so slightly, but I found even that unnecessary.

That said, I'll probably put in 5 deg for the contingency that I get behind someone who wants to do 75 kts down the conga line. A little flap does seem to make the feel a little less mushy at 80 and below.

Get out there and practice, y'all!

[plehrke]

Originally Posted by ExtraKatana

Anyone do 135kts at 2300? Does Fiske have any problems seeing an RV up there?

What EAA says.

IF YOU ARE CAPABLE OF UTILIZING THE 1,800' PATTERN, PLEASE DO SO.

Do not utilize the 2,300' pattern just because your aircraft is capable of flying at 135 knots. It makes it much easier for ATC to develop a sequence when most aircraft are at 1,800!

http://www.eaa.org/en/airventure/eaa...les-arrival#10

[painless]

Originally Posted by krw5927

Get out there and practice, y'all!

This

Was out yesterday in my 6A sloshing along at 90kts, 10 degrees of flap in some gusty/bumpy conditions. Good to review the feel of the airplane in those conditions. The deck angle is a tad reduced, not real significant, but every little bit helps.

I concentrate on practicing really tight patterns. Thing that I work on is getting comfortable making the base to final turn at a lower altitude than I do on a normal approach, mostly prepping for the runway 18 pattern at OSH. Turning base at the blue dot, the pink dot landing target comes up pretty fast.

[Marc Bourget]

Mr. Dye, NOTAMS are NOTAMS but when there's a mile clear in front of the "slow flight" Cessna and, as (DanH) mentioned, not everyone flies down the RR track, "squirting" around the Cessna in something with the acceleration of a RV-6 may be an acceptable move in response to an exigent circumstance.

In three approaches to OSH since '76, I've had pilots "insert" themselves from a 45. One on downwind, had his prop chained by the FAA right off the taxiway. It didn't move for 3 days.

[moll780]

I've also NEVER deviated.. Last year I had to peel off 3 times because of some jerk joining after Ripon. one cirrus all I could see is the planes belly.
Im going to be vocal this year and call out the idiots.

Originally Posted by ExtraKatana

I like the answer but I have never deviated from the Notam. I have pointed the nose up and done 65kts behind the 172 that didn't read the Notam.
They were certainly able of going faster.