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  #1  
Old 04-25-2016, 09:34 PM
leok leok is offline
 
Join Date: Apr 2013
Location: Clarkston, MI
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Default Instrument panel critique

The photo shows the IP layout so far. Since I haven't purchased the instruments or cut holes, I thought this might be a good time to post and let others tell me what they think. I recognize everyone has their own favorite layout, so in the spirit of learning, I appreciate all feed back. It is intended to be IFR capable.

By way of explanation, I have chosen to go with Garmin G3X and all Garmin supporting cast. Instead of a GTN650 or 750 I plan on a remote mounted GPS20A (ADSB WAAS certified position source) feed to ADSB out, both MFDs with seperate GNC255a nav/com and GTR200 com radios. The cost is about $4K less total and I don't need another screen. I also wanted to leave space in the lower center stack to mount an ipad (removable and exchangeable as technology changes).



All of the switch plates are laser etched second surface (etched from the back in black coated clear stock) and backlit.

Leo
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  #2  
Old 04-26-2016, 04:59 AM
mturnerb mturnerb is offline
 
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What is your backup attitude reference?
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  #3  
Old 04-26-2016, 05:29 AM
leok leok is offline
 
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Two MFDs with independent ADAHRs powered from separate busses.
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  #4  
Old 04-26-2016, 05:43 AM
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Jesse Jesse is offline
 
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Location: X35 - Ocala, FL
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You will technically be IFR capable with this setup, but will only be able to do VOR and ILS approaches. The GOS position source will cover your 2020 requirement for ADS-B, but don't confuse that with the need for an IFR GPS Navigator. You will be much better off with a GTN-625 or 650 instead of the Nav radio. With the money you are spending on the airplane overall, this is peanuts, IMHO. You will be considered by most people not IFR capable without an IFR GPS.

As for layout, I have don't this many times, and have flown many RV-10's. The right hand panel will be slightly better than useless to the pilot. It is simply too far to the right. If you keep it there, unless you expect to do a lot of flying from the right seat, you would be much better off removing that screen and spending the extra money on the GTN-625 or 650. I understand the desire to by symmetrical, but that is a long way to reach with your hands or your eyes.

I recommend putting the G3X screens right next to each other with the radios along the bottom and/or top of the panel. With the new glass panels, keeping the traditional radio stack is both not as important, and not as practical. You can also move the left screen further to the left. I can't tell what you have to the left of the left screen, but you should be able to do whatever that is in a smaller format to allow for better use of the panel real estate for the more important items.

Just my $.03.
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  #5  
Old 04-26-2016, 06:36 AM
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ColoRv ColoRv is offline
 
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I'm with Jesse. I would forego the paint job before I went without a GTN650 if IFR is your mission. You're going to want the coupled GPS approaches at your fingertips. If it were me, I would put a GTN in the stack and remote mount the second com, controlling through the touch.
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  #6  
Old 04-26-2016, 06:42 AM
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rleffler rleffler is offline
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by leok View Post
Two MFDs with independent ADAHRs powered from separate busses.
What's your plan when one goes bad in IMC? Which one is the correct one?

This is why most folks use a small EFIS from another manufacturer. Not only does it provide the tie breaker, it also has independent code in case there is a software issue that takes out both screens.

The good news is that there are plenty of options available from all manufacturers.
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  #7  
Old 04-26-2016, 07:17 AM
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Dbro172 Dbro172 is offline
 
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I would place the AP controller (GMC 305/7) at the top of the stack.

Not only do I think this is a user friendly location but the device is also very shallow (doesn't interfere with Ribs behind panel) and does not rest in a mounting tray. Its nice to be able to stack your trays on top each other but if the GMC is in the middle, you'd end up with a gap between trays. Make sense?
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  #8  
Old 04-26-2016, 07:45 AM
vic syracuse vic syracuse is offline
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Default Some opinions

REally cool that you ask for ideas! I normally lay out the panel and then blow it up to full size and sit in a chair in front of it and pretend I am flying (making noises only when no one is looking of course!).

First, as mentioned, don't short yourself on an IFR navigator. You don't need to spend a lot of buck on large screen navigators, as you will hardly ever look at them since all of the information is on the screens, but you will need it for IFR procedures and approaches.

For my airplanes I always put both screens on the left side and the radio stack further to the right. It makes really good use of the screen real estate. Otherwise, the screen on the right side is not used much, and you find yourself configuring the pilot's side with too much clutter so you can see EFIS/MAP/Engine data. The RV10 is much bigger than the other SBS RV's, and it is quite a reach to the screen on the far right side. When someone does fly from the right side, it is easy to configure the pilot's right screen for flight information and the right seat pilot can use it just fine.

I think the autopilot controller should be at the TOP of the radio stack so either pilot/non-pilot can get to it. I always brief my non-pilot wife on how to engage the autopilot should anything happen to the main pilot. I like for it to be within reach of both seats.

Just some thoughts.....

Vic
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  #9  
Old 04-26-2016, 08:15 AM
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g3xpert g3xpert is offline
 
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Hello Leo,

You have a great start there and we appreciate you choosing Garmin products for your RV-10!

You have obviously put a lot of thought into this and have made some good decisions, but we want to make sure you are aware of all the options.

First, while the GNC 255A has a street price of around $3,900 and is attractive because it includes both COM and NAV radios, when the cost of a GPS 20A ($845) with GA 35 antenna ($309) are added, you end up at ~$5,050 which puts you close to the special price of $5,495 (including antenna) which we sell a GTN 625 for when purchased with a G3X or G3X Touch system, which has much more IFR capability.

The GTN 625 not only supports flying legal IFR enroute, but of course allows you to fly all those great LNAV+V and LPV approaches, which greatly exceed the number of ILS approaches available in the U.S. Many of the smaller airports that EABs often use don't have an ILS approach, but do have an LPV approach. As a bonus, the GTN 625 also serves as the 2020 compliant position source for your $2,199 GTX 23ES transponder to get you all ready for 2020.

As others have mentioned, you might consider installing the GMC 307 with dedicated heading and altitude select knobs. It also has larger buttons than the GMC 305 which I really like.



It is a little hard to see which audio panel you have in your stack, but please consider the new GMA 245 Bluetooth capable audio panel.



In the event you do decide to install a backup instrument, please consider the new G5. As explained in this posting, the G5 was designed from the ground up to be the best electronic flight instrument on the market including a great deal of independence and dissimilarity from your G3X system. It is not necessary to purchase a backup instrument from a different vendor and give up on the tight integration offered by the G5 if the instrument is properly designed.



Speaking of tight integration with G3X, those installing a G5 can consider using this as their backup ADAHRS instead of a second GSU25 ADAHRS. Just like a GSU25, the G5 can be connected to both the primary CAN bus and wired directly into a serial port on a G3X or G3X Touch display as a backup data path. You can shut down GSU25 #1 and even the CAN bus, and the G5 will still be providing ADAHRS data and even WAAS GPS data to a big display in the G3X system over the RS-232 backup data path. When you have a choice to buy a second GSU25 ADAHRS for $799 or a complete G5 flight instrument with display and GPS for $1,199, it is interesting to consider the latter.

Please don't hesitate to contact us directly if you have any questions.

Thanks,
Steve
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Last edited by g3xpert : 04-27-2016 at 06:43 AM. Reason: Added information about G5 backup data path.
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  #10  
Old 04-26-2016, 03:10 PM
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NovaBandit NovaBandit is offline
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jesse View Post
You will be much better off with a GTN-625 or 650 instead of the Nav radio. .

As for layout, I have don't this many times, and have flown many RV-10's. The right hand panel will be slightly better than useless to the pilot. It is simply too far to the right.

I recommend putting the G3X screens right next to each other with the radios along the bottom and/or top of the panel. With the new glass panels, keeping the traditional radio stack is both not as important, and not as practical.
Totally agree. My 3rd screen (which is about where your left screen is) is of very little use to me from the pilot's seat. I'd 3rd the notion of putting the PFD and MFD side by side. When I'm setting up for an approach, I've got the both PFD and MFD split, so I'm really using the full real estate of the two high res screens. I wouldn't want to read a plate that far over!

Also, GPS approaches are where things are going. I also agree with the commenters above about the value of the GTN.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dbro172 View Post
I would place the AP controller (GMC 305/7) at the top of the stack.
I read this a lot, and I don't know that I agree. I know that's where most jets locate the AP panel, but I find it really convenient having the AP control panel low and centered on the panel. It's within a few inches of where my hand rests in flight (on my armrest mounted quadrant), and a smooth movement to make when going from NAV to HDG when ATC gives me a clearance with a heading... as opposed to reaching up, and possibly over to the left if it's above the PFD.
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