New guy with some questions....

Hostage46 · #1 12-24-2006, 09:21 AM

Merry Christmas to all ....

New guy here, been lurking for too long. I've been daydreaming about the RV since the early 90's. That's right over 15 years of ... one of these days. I even have a set of old -6 plans. So I could have built what, three of them in that timeframe?

Living in North Texas I've been aware of popularity of the RV as they are often spotting overhead, that's usually where I tell a buddy "one of these days I'm going to build one of those..."

So I've waited long enough. I think I can credit Delta Romeo for my latest uptick in interest, it seems Doug is my nieghbor here in the quite little town of Highland Village, I finally figured out it's Flash that I've seen ripping over the niegborhood having all that fun.

So I'll be ordering my tail kit within the next week or so. My question is, around tools and builder training;

Do I need to lay out $2K for an entire tool package? My position on tools has always been, buy 'em as you need 'em.
Vans has a few starter kits to fiddle with, are they worth the effort?
Would I be better off at a builders class, must be plenty of that in Dallas!

Anyway, thanks for looking, look forward to the advice...

Dan

captainron · #2 12-24-2006, 09:42 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dan Ahearn

Merry Christmas to all ....

New guy here, been lurking for too long. I've been daydreaming about the RV since the early 90's. That's right over 15 years of ... one of these days. I even have a set of old -6 plans. So I could have built what, three of them in that timeframe?

Living in North Texas I've been aware of popularity of the RV as they are often spotting overhead, that's usually where I tell a buddy "one of these days I'm going to build one of those..."

So I've waited long enough. I think I can credit Delta Romeo for my latest uptick in interest, it seems Doug is my nieghbor here in the quite little town of Highland Village, I finally figured out it's Flash that I've seen ripping over the niegborhood having all that fun.

So I'll be ordering my tail kit within the next week or so. My question is, around tools and builder training;

Do I need to lay out $2K for an entire tool package? My position on tools has always been, buy 'em as you need 'em.
Vans has a few starter kits to fiddle with, are they worth the effort?
Would I be better off at a builders class, must be plenty of that in Dallas!

Anyway, thanks for looking, look forward to the advice...

Dan

Hi Dan, Merry Christmas! If you have an extra week, I highly recommend Alexander Tech Center in Griffin, GA. www.buildtofly.com
You have already wasted too much time, and in one week you could have your empennage built, and built right! Plus, you'll know exactly what you'll want and need in your tool purchases. Seems to me that everyone makes their newcomer building mistakes while building the first part of the plane, but I happen to think that the empennage is a somewhat critical part, especially if you're going to be into the kind of maneuvers that the Vans planes have been known to perform. I think it's time and money well spent.
Just my .02 worth.

JoeG · #3 12-24-2006, 10:10 AM

Dan,

Congratulations on your decision! I recommend taking a building class. I took the weekend course offered by George Orndorf. I don't know if he is still offering the class l, because he is moving sometime soon, but it was very good.

The whole course was valuable, but one of the best things he did was at the end of the second day. We went, page by page, through the Avery catalog, and he pointed out the tools that would cover 99% of the build. Even suggesting what could be purchased at other locations for a better price. I bought most of what he suggested, even though I didn't know at the time when or why I would use every item. I am well into the wing kit now, and I have used everything he recommended. I can't think of a single item, that I have needed and didn't already have. It was a very comprehensive and accurate list.

Bottom line. Take a course, and buy the tools now if you can.

Happy building!

hydroguy2 · #4 12-24-2006, 10:13 AM

and here's my take(i just started so take it for what it's worth)

1. you may not need to purchase all the tools. I have been able to borrow a C-frame dimpler, a Tatco squeezer, other odds&ends and more clecos than I could carry. SO you can save some significant money, by getting involved with other builders. BUT I also purchased some used tools cheap, before I knew what I was looking at and many of them are junk. If I was to do it over I would bite the bullet and order the Avery Kit

2. No info on the mini projects from Vans. I went to a friends shop and he gave me "rivet 101" training for a couple hours. Worked for me.

3. I had thought about a "builder class", but being in Montana...any class was going to take some travel and much expense. After talking with several builders, I concluded that I am capable enough(with their assistance) to tackle this and save my money for more stuff. If money was no object I may have gone to Oregon for a Emp build class.

The best thing you can do is get your work area organized. the best tools are useless if you can find them.

Welcome aboard and good luck.

JoeG · #5 12-24-2006, 10:24 AM

Hydroguy's post reminded me of one other thing. We built the Vans practice kit wing section in the class we took.

I also agree that there is nothing magic about a "professional" course in riveting. If you want to buy the practice kit and come to my hangar some Saturday, I could show you the basics you need to get started.

Hostage46 · #6 12-24-2006, 10:39 AM

Joe appreciate the offer. I sent a note off to George, I'll let you know when I hear from him. Regardless I'd definitely like to have a look at the project.

Curious how many builders are there in the DFW area?

RatMan · #7 12-24-2006, 10:49 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dan Ahearn

[*]Do I need to lay out $2K for an entire tool package? My position on tools has always been, buy 'em as you need 'em.

No reason to invest 2 grand up front, you can buy as you go.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dan Ahearn

[*]Vans has a few starter kits to fiddle with, are they worth the effort?

Yes, especially if you are going to start building with no instruction. See next response.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dan Ahearn

[*]Would I be better off at a builders class, must be plenty of that in Dallas!

YES! I didn't do this BUT I am surrounded buy builders and very experienced A&P's. I see that you already have an offer for instruction so go that route first.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dan Ahearn

Curious how many builders are there in the DFW area?

Here's a start, RV Whitepages

robertahegy · #8 12-24-2006, 10:53 AM

Merry Christmas and welcome to the RV world. I think it depends on your skill level as a craftsperson or backyard putzer as to what type of training to look for. Since you are close to other flying RVs and builders, you have an edge.

I did the weekend RV assembly and found it was just what I needed to learn riveting basics and use of the tools. I purchased the Avery RV tool kit and added extra clecoes, yokes and substituted a pneumatic squeezer instead of the hand squeezer. I added a longeron and 1" and 4" no hole yokes to compliment my 3" yoke. Get lots of #30 and 40 bits. I upgraded to a Souix drill and 3X rivet gun. I also went quick build on the wings and fuselage.

The more and better tools you have, the easier it is to do a better job. A good size (4 X 8' if possible) table that is flat, level, and sturdy is essential. Place an MDF surface on it so you can drill into it and clecoe parts to it. Have a nice size back riveting plate, too. And have plenty of good lighting. Set up your shop so you can organize things and have several work spaces, if possible.

You will get many bags of parts as you progress through the building. Set them aside in numerical order. Most of the bags are set up for certain subassemblies. As you use the bags, have little parts drawers reserved to place leftover rivets and small parts. I would not recommend unbagging and sorting until you actually need the bag of parts. The inventory sheets tell you what is in the bags. It is easier to determine what the parts are when you only have to sort a few.

Happy Building,

Roberta

Hostage46 · #9 12-24-2006, 11:32 AM

Thanks Roberta,

I'll plan on taking advantage of local builders who are willing to show me a thing or two. George O is close as well.

I'd characterized myself as pretty handy, certainly have a lot to learn, but that's the point! To start the only thing's I'm lacking are specialized metal working tools. Plenty of things like a bandsaw, drill press, grinder, storage space, and a way more bench space than I need.

My current shop will handle the tail feathers and maybe even the wings, I can always put some air into the garage when it's time for the fuse ....

Dan ...

jcoloccia · #10 12-24-2006, 02:02 PM

As I said in a previous to someone looking for tools in Italy, if I had it to do again I would buy most of the tools used if I could. Maybe you'll have to replace a couple of dies that have gouges on them, or something like that, but you'll come out WAY ahead. And it really easy to find used Avery kits on the market. If you're lucky, you can find the tools, emp and wing kit for less than the price of the wing kit alone.

just my $.02