First-time builder dilemma: RV-3 or RV-8?

[highflight42x]

Think about building costs:

You'll need an 0-360 + CS to get all the performance out of an -8. An RV3 will fly fabulously on a O-320 + FP, at probably half the cost.

200lb pilot + parachute + gas = you're probably overgross in a -3 for aerobatics.

Oh my gosh, working on an RV3 engine in the accessory case area means scraped, twisted bloody knuckles! There is very little room back there. Want a spin-on oil filter and a CS prop on a -3? Shoehorn 'em in there! (why oh why didn't Van design the tail a little longer on the -3 and put the engine out a little further??)

You'll climb out at 2500fpm in your -3 with an 0-320 and Catto FP. And you'll burn 6gph for a local hop, 7gph for an XC cruise at 160kts.

Think about maintenance. For a thousand operating hours you gotta:

- change oil & filter 2-3 times a year
- clean, gap, ohm-check the plugs every 30 hours or so
- borescope the cylinders
- replace brake pads (6 times), o-rings, disks
- replace tires, tubes (four sets of tires)
- pack wheel bearings (six times)
- do annuals
- re-torque the FP prop
- fix leaking pushrod seals
- fix leaking valve covers
- fix leaking carb accel pump
- fix/replace voltage regulator
- replace battery (three times)
- replace altimeter (twice)
- replace the starter
- replace the alternator belt (twice)
- replace all oil and gas hoses (twice)
- repair oil temp sender (twice)
- replace oil temp vernatherm
- clean oil pressure relief valve
- yank the mags every 500 hrs
- test mag timing and cylinder compression every year
- clean gas filter, air filter
- check/ream valve guides every 400 hours (Lyc SB 388)
- check engine and accessory AD's
- fix cracks in heat muffs
- fix cracks/leaks in cooling baffles
- replace worn scat tubing
- replace worn brake lines
- install the latest (prop, EFIS, LED lights, lightweight starter, GPS gadget, etc)
- fix fuel tank leak(s)
- replace o-rings on (fuel caps, primer pumps, fuel valves, master cylinders, etc)
- replace radio
- mode-C transponder check every two years
- have I forgotten anything??

Now, do you really want to also have to maintain an ELT, an autopilot, a CS prop, an IFR panel, two acro parachutes, two radio headsets and an ICS? (and thank heaven RV's aren't retractable!)

We all have to install ADS-B soon. Does a -3 have enough panel space for an EFIS, XM weather and ADS-B-in?

Think about that biannual flight review: If you own a -3, you'll have to rent a 172 every two years (with an -8, the CFI will pay you to go up ... or so I've heard)

Think about operating costs: How much does a hanger cost? You can shoe-horn a -3 into a hanger with someone else easier because it's smaller. Full hull insurance on an -8 is what, $1500, $2000/yr? (liability-only for a -3 is $250/yr).

Think about gas. 100LL is going away. What will be around for those 180+hp high-compression IO-360's four years from now? (use no-ethanol mogas for your RV3 0-320 with 7:1 pistons, yep)

Think about passengers. Do you want to expose friends & family to the hazards of your high-performance RV? (400+ accidents and 200+ fatalities over the years - yeah, go add up the NTSB reports on RV accidents). Lots of folks maintain their airplanes to near perfection and fly passengers safely. Can you? Or would your wife/gf/best pal be just as happy sitting next to you in a benign rented 172?

Finally, I built my -3 over a seven year period when I was also doing my flight training. The -3 fits my mission perfectly, but I just got lucky on that. After a thousand hours, I've probably put in as much time maintaining the plane as I spent building it! Ah, to be an RV aviator!

- Steven
(1000+ RV3 hours ... another one day before yesterday!)

[Saville]

"200lb pilot + parachute + gas = you're probably overgross in a -3 for aerobatics. "

45 pounds over XC gross to be exact - assuming an electrical system.

I don't know what the acro gross is for the -3.

[KatieB]

Originally Posted by highflight42x

We all have to install ADS-B soon. Does a -3 have enough panel space for an EFIS, XM weather and ADS-B-in?

Yes! Plenty!

[Waterobert]

Great post Steven, flying cost a lot off money. Some aspects are not very obvious to a novice. I am hoping to build 3RV in the future, mostly because it looks like cheapest to build and to own. I would love to build larger plane,however , money is just not there. In my case, I don't need to worry about overloading the plane. At 152 lbs I can do acrobatics with no problem.

[Ironflight]

Originally Posted by Waterobert

Great post Steven, flying cost a lot off money. Some aspects are not very obvious to a novice. I am hoping to build 3RV in the future, mostly because it looks like cheapest to build and to own. I would love to build larger plane,however , money is just not there. In my case, I don't need to worry about overloading the plane. At 152 lbs I can do acrobatics with no problem.

Unfortunately, pound-for-pound, and all other things being equal, the RV-3 is going to be more expensive than a similarly equipped RV of another model. That might not make sense until you realize that the price of the kit is usually about 1/3rd of the completed aircraft. Engines and props cost about the sames (within the 150 - 180 HP range), and if you put the same flavor of avionics in either one, that;s a wash as well. Sure, if you are comparing a light, simple RV-3 built with an engine you got from your uncle and no radio to a full IFR RV-7, then there is a huge difference. but with similar equipment/appointments, the RV-3 is not going to save you that much money.

Paul

[Waterobert]

You are right Paul, you have build the best and most likely the most expensive RV3 on the planet.😀
In my case, I will try to build it without autopilot, latest glass panel etc.
VFR will be plenty for me , at least for now.

[gasman]

[quote=Waterobert;1039146
In my case, I will try to build it without autopilot, latest glass panel etc.
VFR will be plenty for me , at least for now.[/QUOTE]

After 6 pages...... Vans 3 is finally described as he intended it.

[Saville]

Originally Posted by gasman

After 6 pages...... Vans 3 is finally described as he intended it.

In the same way, there's a design point for the RV-4. Wood prop, 160hp etc.

[Larry DeCamp]

Paul Dye makes a very accurate point. I have over 50k in my day VFR 3B. If your mission is not the ultimate civilian flying experience, there may be better choices.

[rph142]

Are 3's really the best flying experience? Every once in a while I find myself checking barnstormers for a laser or one design. I have no idea how they fly but they certainly look like fun.