EngineAir

[rv6ejguy]

Originally Posted by fco

As you can see I'm a complete newbye in this field.

I just visited your great website and learned about the Eggenfellner engine. The 210 turborcharged version looks like a good option for the kind of performance I'm after. Only good comments posted by customers on the designer's site.

I'm going to go through the related posts in this forum to find out more.

I think the EZ30 Eggenfellner turbo might be a bit heavy compared to an IO-360 Lycoming but could be made to work. As far as I know, they don't have an engine mount setup for the Lancair at this time. What Lancair airframe are you working with? The IO-360 is not an option in the IV. The IV and IV-P require engines up in the 300-400hp range. The Subarus are not well suited up here.

There are some LS-2 and LS-7 conversions being worked on now by several companies if you are interested.

[rv6ejguy]

Originally Posted by William Slaughter

Hey Ross, would that happen to be Buddy Warren's Wheeler Express?

Maybe, I can find the post here from last week. Performance sounded pretty good and no cooling problems. Do you know more about this airplane?

[William Slaughter]

Originally Posted by rv6ejguy

Maybe, I can find the post here from last week. Performance sounded pretty good and no cooling problems. Do you know more about this airplane?

A bit, if we're in fact talking about the same plane. I've known Buddy for quite a few years, and recently reconnected with him at the airport. His Express is equipped with an original pattern small block Chevy and a redrive of his own design and fabrication. It is extremely compact and lightweight. Buddy is truly a master machinist, and I would certainly want one of his units if I were in the market for a reduction drive. I believe he has a web site concerning the unit, but I don't have the URL here at work. I'll see if I can find it tonight at home.

[fco]

rv6ejguy,

One of the candidates would be the ES. I like the Idea of using automotive fuel. Where I am, auto fuel is around $4.80/gal and 100LL around $8.15/gal for non commercial operators.

On top of that, Egg claims that maintenance cost will be much lower.

+ allegedly as smooth as silk

[rv6ejguy]

The Subes are smooth as silk and they could be installed in the ES. If you are a fabricator type and can design and build a mount, the EZ30 could be installed but it is still short on hp and possibly too light without extending the nose. This is a LOT of work so be prepared to spend a lot of time on it. Many other system design changes must be done as well.

[fco]

I was thinking of the 220HP turbo H6, I don't know if we're talking about the same engine here. The complete instalation is supposed (AFAIK) to be heavier than the equivalent Lyconentals. According to the Egg site they are releasing a new 220HP turbo engine called the E6 in 2007.

Too bad there isn't a FWF kit for the ES. Anyway I have already contacted a builder assistance company.

[rv6ejguy]

The turbo H6 is undergoing flight testing now in Florida. Weight wise, the package is in between the typical 4 and 6 cylinder Lyconentals so adjustments must be made in ballast or engine mounts depending on the airframe. The ES is really designed around the 300-350hp Conti so this Sube would be lighter and way short on power.

An atmo LS2 V8 engine would be closer to the hp and weight of the 550 Conti. Vesta and Robinson are doing work with these.

[fco]

According to Lancair site

The ES can easily reach 200 mph with its 210-hp Continental 1O-360 engine

[gmcjetpilot]

Originally Posted by fco

OK, that was NOT EngineAir website

I just received an email telling me that this guys are not around anymore

I also read the following: a Lycoming IO-360 with 12:1
compression pistons, re-cut timing gears, dual electronic ignition, and other
minor mods will propel a 360 to 250+ knots burning about 12GPH @ 14,000 ft.

Any clue on who does those Lycoming conversions?

This is not doubt Dave Anders, California Dentist and perfectionist RV builder who holds the Cafe Foundation CAFE Tri aviation award, beating a harmon Rocket by a wide margin. And yes he has a very pumped up IO360 that is very radical. His RV-4 is also perfection and as aerodynamic as possible with 100's of mods that make it a very clean airframe. I believe "Lycon" in California did it. You can google their site. You will of course spend unbelievable amount of money, X2 or X3? You should also plan on rebuilds or at least tear down and inspections ever couple of 100 hours depending on how hard you run it. This is an extream engine and not for an every day flying. Dave will tell you this. His engine will never make TBO and he has it torn down for safety inspections. That is expensive. He also has his hartzell prop torn down and inspected/rebuilt more frequently than standard.

Lycoming engineers designed their engine to go to TBO of say 2000 hours typically at stock HP. Of course flying regularly, with in temps and doing regular oil changes is key to meeting the TBO. I had two Lycs go 2300 hours and where still going strong when I sold the plane.

You should think reliability and low maintenance. Also keep in mind and extra 50 hp is only going to make you go about 15 mph faster. That is going from 200 HP to 250 HP gives you less than 20 MPH difference. Of course forget about gas burn, its going to be huge. The fuel level you talk about is flying at a much lower power setting than 250HP. However yes if all you are going to do is fly real high more power helps. Still there is no free lunch, HP and Speed Cost money.

You can add 10 mph while still using a stock engine by just making the cowl and airframe less draggy. It does not cost gas either and its the gift that keeps giving. Forget super high compression and super machine work. Electronic ignition is a good thing. Some find special coatings in the engine help. These mods do not cost reliability or fuel economy. Roller cam and better exhaust are also other win-win mods.

However any mod you make to make way more HP will effect the engine life, big time.

The biggest stock 4-banger you can get today is the Lycoming IO-390-Z, about 210 HP @ 2,700 RPM and 2000 hour TBO. A new stock 180 HP IO360 is about $21,000. A IO-390-Z is going to be $32,900. 30 HP will cost about $12,000 more and add a lot of extra weight. Most RV's find the (I)O360 (180HP) a nice blend of weight, cost and performance. Keep in mind RV's fly better than 90% of the GA fleet on 160 HP.

Also many 200 HP RV's are not much faster or even as fast as 180HP RV's. Again going from 180HP to 200HP will get you about 7-8 mph. Again drag reduction of the airframe can get you that and more. When you go over 200 MPH with the gear still hanging out it gets harder and harder to go faster and HP required goes up by exponentially by a power of 3. Also the angle valve engine is heavier which changes the W&B, the feel and handling of the plane.

160-180HP is LOTS of POWER for a RV. Unless you are rich and want to win the Cafe Foundation Challenge forget HP. If you want more performance than a RV can give get a Rocket, a Harmon HRII or team Rocket F1. They have a 250-260 HP IO540's.

[fco]

Thanks for all the info. I am realising that the "Lycon" mod and the likes are "race" engines are not at all what I'm after which is reliability for everyday flying.

This is precisely why I am starting to be attracted by the auto conversions, besides the huge fuel savings. Congratulations for your two 2300h Lycos but I keep reading that Lyconentals most often don't make it to their expensive TBOs. On the other hand the Egg overhaul and maintenance appears to be comparatively much more affordable.

And no, I'm definitively not a rich guy. This is why I'm setting up a partnership.

At the same time I'm being offered an ES with a TSIO-550 (390HP). I guess as you say it takes that much HP to get this fixed gear going. Do you have an opinion on this engine?