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View Poll Results: Your RV-10's Empty Weight?
1475 - 1525 1 1.82%
1525 - 1575 4 7.27%
1575 - 1625 8 14.55%
1625 - 1675 15 27.27%
1675 - 1725 17 30.91%
1725 - 1775 3 5.45%
1775 - 1825 2 3.64%
1825- 1875 2 3.64%
1875 - 1925 0 0%
1925 - 1975 3 5.45%
Voters: 55. You may not vote on this poll

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  #11  
Old 08-06-2015, 11:48 AM
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rleffler rleffler is offline
 
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Location: Delaware, OH (KDLZ)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 1001001 View Post
Bob,
My concern is primarily to see what the statistics say is possible and likely. I want the best performing, most efficient plane i can build that i can also afford and that can be built in minimum time. My secondary (but serious) concern is comfort. I intend to eventually be flying this plane long distances and i want a ride that makes that possible and enjoyable for me and my passengers.

But I don't want to be shooting for an unrealistic target, either. Collecting data and analyzing it seems a good way of avoiding that trap. Having a Ph.D statistician around the house tends to make you think this way.
Comfort is such a subjective term. What's comfortable to me may not be to you. Some folks are happy with a minimalist approach, which is ok, because it's their aircraft. My build tends to have more creature comfort customizations built in because I wanted a more "comfortable cruiser".

For example, if you take a look at Aerosport Products panels and interiors. The carbon fiber is light weight compared to fiber glass, but it also costs a bit more too. The kydex side panels don't weigh much either. I chose to give up a few pounds to get a better looking interior.

I would highly recommend giving Geoff Combs at Aerosport Products a call to discuss the weights of his products. It will give you some idea that they really aren't don't impact W&B significantly. I'm sure that there are other vendors that would be happy to have the same conversation as well.

Also, in some cases, it will also benefit by shorten build time. For example the overhead console and the head liner with allow you to skip significant work on finishing the inside of the cabin cover.
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  #12  
Old 08-06-2015, 11:53 AM
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chazking chazking is offline
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: State of Bliss
Posts: 396
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Dave,

You conduct a poll; super! Results may be useful when done well.

What can we learn from the results?

How many responses do you need for statistical significance?

How will you publish the results in a way that helps the community with their understanding of the work we do? Will the results given in an academic or a practical context?

Will there be follow-on polls? For instance, correlating weight to speed?

Enquiring minds want to know!
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  #13  
Old 08-06-2015, 12:09 PM
woxofswa woxofswa is offline
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Mesa Arizona
Posts: 608
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I came in a bit lardo at 1724 (thanks for the 1725 cutoff).

I have one batt and one alt, but I have air-conditioning, overhead console, and sound proofing in every fuse cavity. Full interior with headliner.

I have flown dozens of high performance singles and nothing compares to the performance of this amazing machine. I've flown certified airplanes at under their legal weight and well within performance envelopes that scared the krap out of me with their anemic performance. Sure light is nice, but it is much more important on an acro than a 10. My advice is if you are going to build an 8, build it as light as possible, if you are going to the effort and cost to build a comfortable cross country cruiser like the 10, then don't be afraid to build it out (intelligently), and enjoy the bells and whistles. Your wife will thank you.

Someone very close to me got caught in one of those unplanned middle of the night situations that required a tough decision to load more weight than normally should be loaded. DON'T EVER DO THIS! However, he was highly experienced and knew how to handle it. DON'T EVER DO THIS!

The airplane never blinked an eye ... SO I'VE HEARD ... BUT DON'T EVER DO THIS.
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Last edited by woxofswa : 08-06-2015 at 01:00 PM.
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  #14  
Old 08-06-2015, 12:21 PM
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1001001 1001001 is offline
 
Join Date: Dec 2014
Location: Just Minutes from KBVI!
Posts: 1,039
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chazking View Post
Dave,

You conduct a poll; super! Results may be useful when done well.

What can we learn from the results?

How many responses do you need for statistical significance?

How will you publish the results in a way that helps the community with their understanding of the work we do? Will the results given in an academic or a practical context?

Will there be follow-on polls? For instance, correlating weight to speed?

Enquiring minds want to know!
I'll have to ask the resident statistician. I'm sure she'll yell at me for collecting data before consulting a statistician to determine what data is required to answer the question (she's not a big believer in "big data").
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  #15  
Old 08-06-2015, 12:25 PM
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1001001 1001001 is offline
 
Join Date: Dec 2014
Location: Just Minutes from KBVI!
Posts: 1,039
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Looking at the poll options, I realize now that I did the bins wrong--there are duplicates at the top and bottom of each bin.

For the sake of consistency, please consider your plane in the higher bin if you're on the edge (for instance, 1725 should be in the 1725-1775 bin, not the 1675 - 1725 bin.
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  #16  
Old 08-06-2015, 12:33 PM
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1001001 1001001 is offline
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rleffler View Post
Comfort is such a subjective term. What's comfortable to me may not be to you. Some folks are happy with a minimalist approach, which is ok, because it's their aircraft. My build tends to have more creature comfort customizations built in because I wanted a more "comfortable cruiser".

For example, if you take a look at Aerosport Products panels and interiors. The carbon fiber is light weight compared to fiber glass, but it also costs a bit more too. The kydex side panels don't weigh much either. I chose to give up a few pounds to get a better looking interior.

I would highly recommend giving Geoff Combs at Aerosport Products a call to discuss the weights of his products. It will give you some idea that they really aren't don't impact W&B significantly. I'm sure that there are other vendors that would be happy to have the same conversation as well.

Also, in some cases, it will also benefit by shorten build time. For example the overhead console and the head liner with allow you to skip significant work on finishing the inside of the cabin cover.
Bob,

Build time is a major concern for me and therefore i will not hesitate to spend a tad more for a preassembled component like a center console or overhead liner ( I really liked the one you have in your plane). However, i do intend to set up a spreadsheet of all options I'm considering, complete with weight (product weight and estimated installed weight) to try to make sure before I buy something that I'm not building too much nonessential weight into the aircraft.

I think a valuable resource for builders would be a database of options and their weights and normal CG locations. Maybe my effort will help get that started.
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  #17  
Old 08-06-2015, 01:47 PM
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chazking chazking is offline
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: State of Bliss
Posts: 396
Default Yelling!

She should yell at you!

And, this is not a big data problem as most of the data can be easily structured. The real question is how good is the data & the resident expert may be able to apply statistical magic to get some sense of the sample's reliability.

While the results may help your build, developing some useful analysis would be grand. If for no other reason than to bound conversations.

Thanks for the start. The threads Bob Leffler suggested may also have data that could be included in the sample size.
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  #18  
Old 08-06-2015, 02:02 PM
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Carl Froehlich Carl Froehlich is offline
 
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Location: Dogwood Airpark (VA42)
Posts: 2,596
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1659 pounds
- Two batteries
- Full paint (top coat and clear coat)
- Dual EFIS install
- Pitch and roll autopilot
- Insulation on firewall, floors and sides plus a cabin top liner

Carl
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  #19  
Old 08-06-2015, 03:50 PM
ddddsp ddddsp is offline
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: GI, Nebraska
Posts: 173
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Most everyone familiar with the RV 10 knows that is has outstanding performance. Flying mine the past 8 years has spoiled me to the point I cringe when I have to fly another plane.

The success of the RV 10 has launched several cottage businesses and numerous modifications/add-ons. People will debate for days which ones are a necessity and which ones are a luxury item. As an experimental builder you can choose to add as many as you like. However, no matter what you do to justify every mod they all add more weight.

Weight and gravity in an airplane are very predictable. After several flights with 3 people and several with four people on board, I can tell you there is a measurable difference in fuel burn. More weight = more gas!

As we all know everything in the build process is a trade-off. So if you decide to add more and fly lots of long trips, expect to spend more on 100LL. If you want super comfort and plan to fly very few trips don't worry about weight.

Some have suggested those builders that spend several thousand more on their RV 10 have extra cash and don't worry about fuel costs. Seems logical but I still hear and read from those builders about the high cost of fuel and how it effects their flying hours.

Just build it and fly it................SAFELY!
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  #20  
Old 08-06-2015, 07:43 PM
BobTurner BobTurner is offline
 
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Location: Livermore, CA
Posts: 6,797
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' "Also, in some cases, it will also benefit by shorten build time. For example the overhead console and the head liner with allow you to skip significant work on finishing the inside of the cabin cover."

Bob,

Build time is a major concern for me....'

Of course, you always have the option of doing nothing (I spray painted to cover the awful pink) if you really want to minimize time and cost.
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