Preparing for emergency landings (canopy)

N523RV · #1 11-19-2006, 08:27 PM

I just finished reading the "I Learned about Flying From That" in the latest Flying magazine about an emergency water landing down in Mexico when the engine quit. It would appear that they did everything right and walked away from the accident alive. When I read these types of articles, I always try and ask myself how I would handle the same situation in the RV.

In this particular case, I got to thinking about how I would handle the "open your door before landing" checklist item. With more traditional aircraft having doors that open outward instead of upward this is a simple task but I wonder what the best option would be in an RV? This discussion could really go down two paths: slider vs. tip-up. In my case, tip-up.

With the tip-up we have two latches, the side latch and the top latch. A simple twist on the top latch and it will be ready. The side latch can also be unlatched easily and quickly. However, what happens if the canopy is unlatched during flight?? Will it stay down? Will it be forced open and blow off? Let's assume that it stays down in flight when unlatched, would it make sense to prop it open with the upper handle as we do when taxi'ng?? Would this cause the canopy to blow off then? How would we handle the situation differently between a terra-firma landing versus a water landing?

The slider RV's out there may have an easier decision to make? Just open the canopy and slide it back. If it rips off in flight, so be it? (Risk of taking out the tail feathers?) In a water landing this would immediately allow water in.. that a good thing? (The guys in this article had hard time opening the doors.)

I certainly don't have the answers and would love to hear what other RV'rs (especially the coastal RV'rs) think about such things. Not much chance of hitting water here in the Midwest but you never know.

Captain Avgas · #2 11-20-2006, 01:30 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by N523RV

The slider RV's out there may have an easier decision to make? Just open the canopy and slide it back. If it rips off in flight, so be it?

I doubt it would be that simple with a slider. Some people who have taken off with their slider canopies unlocked have reported that it is very difficult to slide the canopy either rearward or forward (to lock it) in flight. And even if you could slide the canopy back it would almost certainly come forward like a bullet when you hit the water and decelerated....and this might just take off the top of your head if there's any slack whatever in your seatbelt.

Come to think of it I would imagine that there'd be a better than even chance that an RV would flip in a ditching....and getting out of a slider or a tip-up could prove very challenging.

Does anyone know of a pilot who ditched an RV (slider or tip-up).... and survived to tell the tale.

pierre smith · #3 11-20-2006, 05:32 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by N523RV

The slider RV's out there may have an easier decision to make? Just open the canopy and slide it back. If it rips off in flight, so be it? .

Hi guys,
This has been discussed in the past and the consensus was that you can't open a slider in flight (which makes wearing a parachute a moot point).
Yes, the guys had a hard time opening the doors because of all the pressure. If they had a flooded cabin, the doors would open much easier since the pressure inside and outside would equalize.

If you were to make a water landing, it would definitely behoove you to have the canopy cracked ANY amount, allowing it to first flood for the above reasons.

Bear in mind that you probably would have tumbled at least once, depending on how slow you were at impact, and more than likely would be disoriented and shaken as Jimmy Buffet was when he went over in his seaplane. He remembered his training which reminded him of "Bubbles up", meaning to figure out which way is up by the bubbles' upward movement, probably saving his life or at least contributing to it. Dunno if this helps

Can't hurt. This is one reason that I have an axe on board.

Regards,

Mel · #4 11-20-2006, 06:18 AM

If the tip-up canopy is unlatched in flight it will open about 4-8" and stay there. It has happened. Tony Bingelis had this happen on one of his first flights. The airplane flies fine, but he said he could not close it in flight.

Ironflight · #5 11-20-2006, 06:29 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Captain Avgas

Does anyone know of a pilot who ditched an RV (slider or tip-up).... and survived to tell the tale.

I am sure I read a story about a fellow who ditched his -8 out in Hawaii maybe two years ago (it was while I was building), and survived, but I can't remember where I saw it....

My plan for ditching would be to unlock the canopy and pull the "pip" pins that connect my forward canopy rollers to the canopy frames. That would make it much easier to get rid of the canopy after splashdown.

I know many people came here from the Grumman world, and probably remember the endless discussions about what to do with the canopy in these cases. Many carried a 6" piece of PVC pipe with a slot cut in it lengthwise. The idea was you'd unlock the canopy, slide it back, and put the "canopy blocker" on the rail to keep the thing from slamming shut.

I'm pretty sure that you'd never get the -8's canopy to slide back enough in flight to make this worthwhile.

Paul

n5lp · #6 11-20-2006, 06:30 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mel

If the tip-up canopy is unlatched in flight it will open about 4-8" and stay there. It has happened. Tony Bingelis had this happen on one of his first flights. The airplane flies fine, but you cannon close it in flight.

I had my tip-up come open in flight once and it was a non-issue and I was able to close it with no problem after slowing down quite a bit. The secondary latch held, but I think I opened it also to help in closing the canopy.

Low Pass · #7 11-20-2006, 07:46 AM

The -8 will tend to move toward a 1" open position. Now the question is what happens after it gets about 3-4" open?? Might slide back violently.

Couple of points which have been pretty well hammered in the archives I believe.

To get out while in the air, it is possible to get it (-8 slider) open in reasonably controlled flight. Has been done at least once.

If it goes upside down in the water you might get it open, but jettisoning the lid sounds better. On the ground, it isn't going to happen. I've seen an -8 on it's back and, as expected, it sits squarely on the bubble.

One question is whether the bubble offers significant protection between touching down and stopping versus using quick release pins and jettisoning the bubble before landing. Anyone in the back seat is going to have very little protection without it. Another argument for the fastback!

Don't forget about the increased liability of flying around with quick release pins holding the canopy. I haven't used quick release pins in mine, but am now thinking I might change. I fly over a lot of water.

G-force · #8 11-20-2006, 08:11 AM

Perhaps for those routinly flying over water, a SCUBA Spare Air setup might be prudent? Would give you at least time to flood the inverted cockpit and open or bust out the canopy. Not any bigger than your typical hand held fire extinguisher.
http://www.snorkelingequipment.com/e...oductCode=4061

pierre smith · #9 11-20-2006, 08:42 AM

Thanks Mike.......close to what the Unlimited Hydro guys use drag racing at well over 220 MPH. I've seen several lose it, go inverted and keep breathing until help arrives or they extricate themselves.

Regards,

Vern · #10 11-20-2006, 09:05 AM

Years ago my instructor was flying a Navion when an oil line broke, followed by an engine failure, covering the windscreen with oil. He opened the sliding canopy and loosened his seatbelt, alternating between sticking his head up to see and sitting down to fly. Just as he sat down, he touched down and the heavy canopy snapped closed.

Had his head been up, he would have been severely injured.