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06-22-2015, 12:21 PM
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Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: SF East Bay
Posts: 852
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sailvi767
 [ Here is what we have. It's clean and simple. I don't see how any failures could introduce FOD. The barrel rotates and opens the slots as a alternate source of air. I believe it is a ECI system.
George
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Ok, what is this piece, how does it work, who makes it etc etc etc.
__________________
Sam
RV-8 with the Showplanes Fastback conversion
Emp completed except for glass work
Wings completed except for bottom skin and glass work
Fuselage underway
N18451 reserved
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06-22-2015, 12:37 PM
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Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Central IL
Posts: 5,516
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sailvi767
 [ Here is what we have. It's clean and simple. I don't see how any failures could introduce FOD. The barrel rotates and opens the slots as a alternate source of air. I believe it is a ECI system.
George
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Quote:
Originally Posted by xblueh2o
Ok, what is this piece, how does it work, who makes it etc etc etc.
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What is this piece - from above ="alternate source of air"
how does it work, from above ="The barrel rotates and opens the slots"
who makes it - from above = "I believe it is a ECI system"
etc: who is buried in Grant's tomb? - = Grant, it is answered within the question
Bad day?
__________________
Bill
RV-7
Lord Kelvin:
“I often say that when you can measure what you are speaking about,
and express it in numbers, you know something about it; but when you
cannot measure it, when you cannot express it in numbers, your knowledge
is of a meager and unsatisfactory kind.”
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06-22-2015, 01:14 PM
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Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: Charlotte NC
Posts: 1,167
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I contacted Robbie Attaway about the alternate air system. It is not a ECI system. He designed the system and holds the copyright. Robbie believes it is the best system out there and I have to agree. It's very elegant and well made. He made several others but left the RV world to work overseas. He is back now and would make more or consider selling the patent but they are expensive. They only work with forward facing injected systems.
George
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06-22-2015, 01:14 PM
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Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Garden City, Tx
Posts: 5,147
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Easy there Bill...
I made a pretty good search of the ECI site looking for this, and it's not to be found - so I'm asking the same questions....
EDIT - George beat me to it. Bill can take the day off.
__________________
Greg Niehues - SEL, IFR, Repairman Cert.
Garden City, TX VAF 2020 dues paid 
N16GN flying 700 hrs and counting; IO360, SDS, WWRV200, Dynon HDX, 430W
Built an off-plan RV9A with too much fuel and too much HP. Should drop dead any minute now.
Last edited by airguy : 06-22-2015 at 01:17 PM.
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06-22-2015, 02:29 PM
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Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Estes Park, CO
Posts: 3,947
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Alternate air
That's pretty slick. Works like the air control on a BBQ pit.
__________________
Larry Larson
Estes Park, CO
http://wirejockrv7a.blogspot.com
wirejock at yahoo dot com
Donated 12/03/2019, plus a little extra.
RV-7A #73391, N511RV reserved (2,000+ hours)
HS SB, empennage, tanks, wings, fuse, working finishing kit
Disclaimer
I cannot be, nor will I be, held responsible if you try to do the same things I do and it does not work and/or causes you loss, injury, or even death in the process.
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06-22-2015, 02:44 PM
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Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Central IL
Posts: 5,516
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Quote:
Originally Posted by airguy
Easy there Bill...
I made a pretty good search of the ECI site looking for this, and it's not to be found - so I'm asking the same questions....
EDIT - George beat me to it. Bill can take the day off.
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Sorry, I could not help my self.  Guess I'm not as funny as I think.
Seriously, it is a slick looking design, very clever. It would appear to provide a non biased flow when in use. But - it does take some valuable space in the flow direction. DanH's unit is packaged in a very short length, and with a healthy flow area for the air filter. My installation will be challenged with a set back cowl. The Will James FAB appears that it will fit in that length and includes a spring operated alternate air door. Not as well documented as Dan's, but saves some development time.
I was thinking that maybe the alt air (filter bypass) was not really needed except in winter, but g-zero just caught a plastic bag reported here less than a month ago. His takeoff was executed on alt air and he returned to find the debris.
__________________
Bill
RV-7
Lord Kelvin:
“I often say that when you can measure what you are speaking about,
and express it in numbers, you know something about it; but when you
cannot measure it, when you cannot express it in numbers, your knowledge
is of a meager and unsatisfactory kind.”
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06-22-2015, 03:02 PM
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Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: 08A
Posts: 9,500
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Durability aside, the question is pressure drop, both for the chosen filter, and when running on alternate or bypass air. The rotating sleeve approach is pretty cool, but should be checked for restriction.
Being located right at the throttle body inlet, it should also be checked to make sure it doesn't upset metering when used with a conventional Bendix-style fuel control (Bendix RSA, AFP FM150 or FM200, Precision Silver Hawk EX5, etc). They all rely on ram and venturi pressure to meter. The unit in the photo is an ECI, which is more like a Continental constant flow system. It delivers fuel based on RPM and throttle opening, not airflow measurement.
__________________
Dan Horton
RV-8 SS
Barrett IO-390
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06-29-2015, 07:44 AM
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Join Date: Mar 2005
Posts: 128
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I had an oil line come apart on a rented Piper Arrow while crossing the Rockies at 12,000 feet. The oil quickly saturated the air filter, resulting in a loss of power. The Alternate Air lever (filter bypass) helped restore power long enough to find a place to put the airplane down safely.
During my RV-7A build, I made sure a filter bypass/alternate air system was installed.
__________________
Bob Walden (Waldo), CFII-ASMEL, Commercial Glider
KFFC "Falcon RV Squadron" Peachtree City, GA
RV-7A Tip-Up, IO-390, 700+ Hours
EAA/AOPA/Vans Air Force 2020 Supporter
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06-29-2015, 12:38 PM
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Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: 57AZ - NW Tucson area
Posts: 10,011
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BobTurner
While your definitions are perhaps 'cleaner' or clearer, they re not the customary ones. Virtually every normally certificated aircraft that I've seen labels the knob 'alternate air' when in fact it is a filter bypass.
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Not always the case on certified planes - sometimes the "Carb Heat" function is also a filter bypass, like on the Grumman Cheetah, and it's labeled as "Carb Heat".
However, the Carb Heat air goes through the air filter on my Grumman Tiger and there is no filter bypass available. This might be allowed by the use of a coarse screen on the start of the Air Intake to Filter Box hose above #3 cylinder...
If this is the case, perhaps the RV risk could be reduced by adding a coarse screen in the cowling intake and letting the carb heat function everyone has act as the safety measure for the dead bird/paper bag ingestion problem?
The Grumman knob for "Alternate Air" is for the static ports bypass only...
__________________
Gil Alexander
EAA Technical Counselor, Airframe Mechanic
Half completed RV-10 QB purchased
RV-6A N61GX - finally flying
Grumman Tiger N12GA - flying
La Cholla Airpark (57AZ) Tucson AZ
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12-30-2015, 05:04 AM
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Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: Palm Beach Gardens, Fl
Posts: 402
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Mine is MIA
Pulled cowls yesterday for oil change, door and all mounting hardware has left the mother ship. About to rebuild without alt air. New parts on the way from Van's already, but, seriously wondering how to have the function without risk of more fastener failures. The fiberglass filter holder is just too flimsy to support pop rivets (at least when they fail they should go down and out the cowl instead of up and in the throttle body, thats what i'm telling myself).

__________________
Bud Smith, RV-8, ECI IOX360 , Dual PMags, Dynon SkyView, Whirlwind 200GA, IFR and N88ZP has "slipped the surly bonds of earth".  
Last edited by dbuds2 : 12-30-2015 at 07:39 AM.
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