Med exam

[enielsen]

It may have come off as such, but I don't think anyone here is blaming the AME's themselves but the outside riff-raff that cause the AME's to have to jump through the hoops and pass that obstacle course down to the individual pilot.

Originally Posted by mturnerb

A better strategy to save lives in these cases is to get "pinch hitter" training for passengers.

I LOVE this idea. I am a low time pilot who is not even current right now. There is no way I would go get my biennial and then take any friends or family up unless they, at least, had solo'd an aircraft in there own training. And even that is stretching it. I'm happy to fly, on occasion with pilot friends, and don't even expect to log the hours in my log book. It's not even about a health issue but a currency one. Getting into a stressful situation would not be good with a panicked passenger to add to it.

When life gets out of the way and I know I can commit to flying at least 8hrs a month, then my limits will adjust accordingly.

Again, great idea! Perhaps you can author up the "Pinch hitter Program" that gives say 5-10hrs training to friends and family of active GA pilots at some kind of reduced rate. It may even convert non-aviation folks into our world.

[MikeyDale]

AME's are getting hard to find in my part of the world. The gentleman I used a few months ago (a RV pilot) is a retired physician that I respect and probably does this just for his love of aviation. I made the mistake of listing Claritin D as an occasional medication I take and we had to look it up in his books and I got a pretty harsh lecture on using over the counter drugs that make you drowsy. I was also asked to lower trou and was given the cough test. But what shocked me is when I was asked to roll over so he could have a look at my rectum! Afterward, I asked what he was looking for? He took a defensive stance and showed me the requirement from the FAA in writing requiring it! Later, I asked my flight instructor who is old military about that and he said he went to the same guy and they all did that in the military.... I did feel like I got a very thorough examination which I really could use because I haven't had a decent checkup in a while. He told me he found a couple of cases of cancer in the recent years that might have saved those pilots lives...By the way, I am all for the DL deal!

[mturnerb]

Originally Posted by enielsen

It may have come off as such, but I don't think anyone here is blaming the AME's themselves but the outside riff-raff that cause the AME's to have to jump through the hoops and pass that obstacle course down to the individual pilot.



I LOVE this idea. I am a low time pilot who is not even current right now. There is no way I would go get my biennial and then take any friends or family up unless they, at least, had solo'd an aircraft in there own training. And even that is stretching it. I'm happy to fly, on occasion with pilot friends, and don't even expect to log the hours in my log book. It's not even about a health issue but a currency one. Getting into a stressful situation would not be good with a panicked passenger to add to it.

When life gets out of the way and I know I can commit to flying at least 8hrs a month, then my limits will adjust accordingly.

Again, great idea! Perhaps you can author up the "Pinch hitter Program" that gives say 5-10hrs training to friends and family of active GA pilots at some kind of reduced rate. It may even convert non-aviation folks into our world.

I'm not qualified to "author" a pinch hitter course (not a CFI or an expert in flight training) but it used to be a fairly common thing when I started flying back in the 80's. I'm aware of more than one story of a spouse landing fairly complex airplanes (twins even) after the S.O./pilot became incapacitated in flight.

The first thing I did when my wife took first ride with me in my RV-12 was show her the "level" button on the Garmin autopilot controller, talk about how to raise someone on the radio, etc. No substitute for a pinch hitter class but I think it's only a matter of time before that button is given credit for saving a life (if it hasn't happened yet).

I think your idea, 5-10 hours training - enough to do some basic aircraft control, communicate, and follow instructions from a pilot on the ground - is a good place to start but that's just an opinion.

Interesting related story: when I first got my PPL back in the early 80's, the check pilot was well into his 80's and a little frail to my eyes. As a young doctor, I remember thinking "what do I do if he keels over?" - this was instinctive and turned out to be not too far off the mark. Two weeks to the day later, he died in his sleep.

[lr172]

Originally Posted by mturnerb

As a former flight surgeon as well, I agree with my colleagues who support the DL medical for third class:

I fear your "colleagues" may represent a small sub-set of the AME community. It was my understanding that the AME community is the second strongest voice/lobby, behind the FAA itself, fighting to maintain the third class medical requirement. It is possible that the AMA or lobby organization is only acting on their behalf without their support, but I find it difficult to believe that the AME community, at large, would prefer that the medical requirements go away. If this were the case, we would see evidence via a shrinking supply of AME's willing to perform them. I suspect very few AME's are performing this service purely as a courtesy to us pilots. They may not find it highly profitable, but if they can't fill their calendar with more profitable visits, it still covers fixed costs. The AME that I visit does nothing but aviation work and I would suspect 3rd class is more than half his business. While he me agree with me that 3rd class medicals don't increase safety (he doesn't, by the way), I can't see him advocating the collapse of his business. I don't know how he would keep the lights on without 3rd class medical work.

Larry

[mturnerb]

Originally Posted by lr172

I fear your "colleagues" may represent a small sub-set of the AME community. It was my understanding that the AME community is the second strongest voice/lobby, behind the FAA itself, fighting to maintain the third class medical requirement. It is possible that the AMA or lobby organization is only acting on their behalf without their support, but I find it difficult to believe that the AME community, at large, would prefer that the medical requirements go away. If this were the case, we would see evidence via a shrinking supply of AME's willing to perform them. I suspect very few AME's are performing this service purely as a courtesy to us pilots. They may not find it highly profitable, but if they can't fill their calendar with more profitable visits, it still covers fixed costs. The AME that I visit does nothing but aviation work and I would suspect 3rd class is more than half his business. While he me agree with me that 3rd class medicals don't increase safety (he doesn't, by the way), I can't see him advocating the collapse of his business. I don't know how he would keep the lights on without 3rd class medical work.

Larry

I cannot argue with you here. I was speaking strictly to those of my colleagues who have expressed support for the DL medical. It's also reasonable to think that (knowing the mindset of a typical pilot, particularly those with a Y chromosome) AME's probably find a significant amount of pathology that would otherwise be missed - no doubt this has a tendency to reinforce the idea of the value of a medical for pilots. And no one is advocating the abolition of Class I/II medicals. I would like to see more evidence behind some of the policies around decision-making for all types of medicals. The pace of change relative to medical knowledge is abysmally slow, and in my opinion many if not most of the policies are based on "experience", not evidence.

There are many issues at play here, and as you point out, there are AME practices that have found a way to make a profit dong aeromedical exams. These probably include:
- using mid-level providers to assist in the process, signed off by the physician. (Back in the day when I was flying with a medical, this was the case)
- high volume
- servicing a population that includes a high volume of Class I/II exams which increase testing and other revenue sources
- providing a wide range of testing/diagnostic services in the practice

Most people are not aware that the AMA does not represent the majority of physicians. I know many members and leaders - they are well meaning, but I chose not to belong as I never found the AMA to be aligned with my viewpoint. The medical profession, compared to many others, has a poor track record politically and the AMA is an example of how the void gets filled.

Having been a flight surgeon and qualified as an AME I understand the viewpoint but I no longer agree - the evidence is just not there and the expense is huge relative to any value provided.

[BobTurner]

Turner, you may wish to edit your post. You say "II/III" but I'm sure you meant "I/II".

[roadrunner20]

Originally Posted by BobTurner

BTW, this web site only works with Internet Explorer, not Safari.

FWIW, I used Safari with no issues

[mturnerb]

Originally Posted by BobTurner

Turner, you may wish to edit your post. You say "II/III" but I'm sure you meant "I/II".

Thanks - and corrected!

[BSwayze]

Originally Posted by lbgjb

As a senior AME I see some misinformation here. You must fill in 8500 either for medical or student pilot/medical on line. The BEST thing then to do is for YOU to print it out and bring it to your AME. (Don't just bring the number) Then, if he is a pilot friendly AME ( not all are!!) he will review the form with you BEFORE he goes online. If there is major problem there is no problem stopping the exam and not getting into the position of denial or deferral. ONCE the AME goes online with HIS login, the exam is official and there is no turning back. It always amazes me that people come for exams taking FAA forbidden meds, having disqualifying medical conditions etc. If you have doubts check with AOPA, Left Seat dot Com or with a good AME. And, regarding the exams being lucrative--most docs do the exams because they enjoy aviation and pilots, and don't do it for the $$. i also strongly support the Aviation Pilot bills in Congress doing away with the 3rd Class Medical.

So where can a person find a copy of this form, just to look it over and read it? I'm about to go in for my first medical, and I've never seen this form before. I would at least like to review it, look it over, and have an idea of what I'm in for, before logging on to a government website and filling out forms.

edit: Never mind... I'm not sure how current it is, but I found a .pdf copy online.

[BobTurner]

Originally Posted by BSwayze

So where can a person find a copy of this form, just to look it over and read it? I'm about to go in for my first medical, and I've never seen this form before. I would at least like to review it, look it over, and have an idea of what I'm in for, before logging on to a government website and filling out forms.

edit: Never mind... I'm not sure how current it is, but I found a .pdf copy online.

You can go to the web site medxpress.faa.gov, register, and see the form. You can just hit "cancel" at the bottom without filling anything in, if you like.

Note to others: I now see the "save" buttons, using Safari, even though it still says "USE IE only" at the top. I must have done something wrong before.