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04-23-2015, 01:53 PM
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Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Royse City, TX
Posts: 143
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If using an AFP FM series F/I unit
If using the AFP FM series F/I with purge valve, Note - During my RV-8 build, the only items I found to be a little more complicated to install for my AFP FM-100 were the purge valve control cable and return plumbing, alternate air control cable and the mixture and throttle controls required custom built cable brackets. Much of this was complicated by the RV-8s gear towers and me attempting to run all my cables through the LH side of the firewall. I wanted my baggage area free of cables. Three control cables and two fuel lines running through the LH side of the firewall. Prop control would be a another. The wide body RVs probably don't have these issues. A carb installation still requires the same basic set of controls (throttle, mixture, carb heat control), so the AFP purge valve system is the only item that adds to the complexity of the build. Vans does a great job in the FWF kit of supporting a carb installation with drawings and the cable attach bracket. I made the decision to go with an AFP FM-100 fairly late in the build process and I had to add some new firewall penetrations that I hadn't planned on, but it worked out OK. The purge valve return line plumbing into the fuel valve took a bit of thinking and cussing, but there are plenty of VAF discussions how its been done. I used a banjo fitting to feed return fuel to the RH tank. If choosing between an AFP FM series F/I system or a carb, my advice would be to decide early so that when build the fuselage, it will be easier to install the purge return line and plumbing, especially on the RV-8. I could not be happier with the AFP FM-100 and the support Don Riveria has provided.
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04-23-2015, 03:08 PM
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Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Mount Vernon, IN
Posts: 1,270
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+1 for fuel injection. Saves money and pays for itself in no time if you fly it right.
Besides, when was the last time you saw a new car with a carb? 'nuf said!
__________________
Vince Frazier
www.f1aircraft.com
F1 Rocket and F4 Raider components
1-888-F1AIRCRAFT (1-888-312-4727)
www.flyboyaccessories.com
RV and Rocket Accessories, Tailwheels, Tools, & More
1-888-8FLYBOY (1-888-835-9269)
F4 Raider - under construction
F1-H Rocket "Crazy Horse" - sold
RV-4 "Chief Pontiac" - sold in 1994, purchased in 2018
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04-23-2015, 07:28 PM
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Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Savannah, GA
Posts: 1,029
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Quote:
Originally Posted by vfrazier
+1 for fuel injection. Saves money and pays for itself in no time if you fly it right.
Besides, when was the last time you saw a new car with a carb? 'nuf said!
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When was the last time you saw a car with a mixture knob?
__________________
RV-7ER - finishing kit and systems installation
There are two kinds of fool in the world. The first says "this is old, and therefore good"; the second says "this is new, and therefore better".
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04-23-2015, 07:45 PM
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Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: Bismarck, ND
Posts: 212
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fuel injection
+1 for fuel injection and electronic ignition.
The carbureted O540 on my 182rg would stumble and spit any time I would get close to a lean mixture.
My O360 in the RV7A with PMAG on the right is smooth while I lean until the power just fades away. At altitude I control rpm with the mixture. The throttle is almost always full in.
I don't mind the mixture knob. Most of the time the power is at a given level and I like having control. If we had a good electronic injection that had backup like the PMAG, I might consider it on a new engine.
__________________
Larry Buller
RV7A slow build, Tip up, IO360 200hp, Catto 3 blade, Dynon Skyview, arinc 429, ems, SV transponder, Garmin GNS430w, Aera 560, Dynon D6.
FLYING!
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04-24-2015, 05:28 AM
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Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Chesterfield, Missouri
Posts: 4,514
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Go with AFP fuel injection, you won't regret it.
Some vendors here are first class, Don Rivera is one of them.
__________________
RV-12 Build Helper
RV-7A...Sold #70374
The RV-8...Sold #83261
I'm in, dues paid 2019 This place is worth it!
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04-24-2015, 07:59 AM
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Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Savannah, GA
Posts: 1,029
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NDrv8r
I don't mind the mixture knob. Most of the time the power is at a given level and I like having control. If we had a good electronic injection that had backup like the PMAG, I might consider it on a new engine.
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Why not look at the current EFII system? Just because the backup generator would be a separate item instead of physically built into the unit is no reason to disregard it. Plus, in adding that separate backup generator/battery, you gain redundant power for any EFIS you might install as well. You're going to need it for the fuel pumps anyway...
My thought on the mixture knob (which probably won't be popular round these parts) is that it's a distraction from flying the airplane. The "benefits" of manually-controlled mixture over a decent automatic system are vastly overstated, and do not outweigh the large potential for the mixture knob actuator to improperly actuate the knob (with consequences ranging from burning too much fuel, to early TBO or a failure from cumulative damage, to an engine failure in the very near term).
__________________
RV-7ER - finishing kit and systems installation
There are two kinds of fool in the world. The first says "this is old, and therefore good"; the second says "this is new, and therefore better".
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04-24-2015, 08:53 AM
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Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Chesterfield, Missouri
Posts: 4,514
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rmartingt
Why not look at the current EFII system? Just because the backup generator would be a separate item instead of physically built into the unit is no reason to disregard it. Plus, in adding that separate backup generator/battery, you gain redundant power for any EFIS you might install as well. You're going to need it for the fuel pumps anyway...
My thought on the mixture knob (which probably won't be popular round these parts) is that it's a distraction from flying the airplane. The "benefits" of manually-controlled mixture over a decent automatic system are vastly overstated, and do not outweigh the large potential for the mixture knob actuator to improperly actuate the knob (with consequences ranging from burning too much fuel, to early TBO or a failure from cumulative damage, to an engine failure in the very near term).
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The mixture control has been part of flying since aviation was invented just like a tail wheel, rudder, elevator or aileron.
Are you suggesting the typical pilot is dumbing down, like mentally incapable of managing a mixture knob?
I've flown with EFII with the Sub H6, it was boring. 
__________________
RV-12 Build Helper
RV-7A...Sold #70374
The RV-8...Sold #83261
I'm in, dues paid 2019 This place is worth it!
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04-24-2015, 09:35 AM
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Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Savannah, GA
Posts: 1,029
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Quote:
Originally Posted by David-aviator
The mixture control has been part of flying since aviation was invented just like a tail wheel, rudder, elevator or aileron.
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The mixture knob was "part of flying" for so long not because it's the ideal way to do things or because it's impossible to fly without one, but rather because it was the best way of achieving good engine operation and fuel economy at the time it was implemented. We now have better ways of doing things. Manually babysitting the engine doesn't make one a pilot; it makes one a flight engineer.
Quote:
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Are you suggesting the typical pilot is dumbing down, like mentally incapable of managing a mixture knob?
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No, I'm suggesting that every second the pilot is heads-down fiddling with the mixture knob is one second not spent scanning for traffic, maintaining situational awareness, navigating, etc.; and every mental clock cycle devoted to babysitting the engine is one less devoted to more important tasks. Once properly set up, an automatic system like EFII won't forget to adjust the mixture, won't forget carb heat, and won't improperly set the engine due to inattention or miseducation. How many engines get ruined, how many airplanes crash, because the pilot forgot the carb heat or mis-leaned the engine?
Quote:
I've flown with EFII with the Sub H6, it was boring.
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I want boring; that's why I've decided to go with EFII. No magic black art to starting, just turn things on and crank. No fiddling with a mixture knob every time I change the power; it does that itself. No carb heat to worry about or forget to apply. More time to look out the canopy and enjoy the view  I'll spend the extra time and complexity and fiddle-time once, up front, rather than keeping it "simple" and making the operation more complex on every flight.
__________________
RV-7ER - finishing kit and systems installation
There are two kinds of fool in the world. The first says "this is old, and therefore good"; the second says "this is new, and therefore better".
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04-24-2015, 09:54 AM
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Join Date: Apr 2014
Location: Underwood, WA
Posts: 413
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FI decision factors?
In the moderately distant future, I'm going to start comparing FI systems to determine which one I'll select for my IFR-capable, cross-country focused RV-10. Since I'm brand new to this engine-thing, what factors should I consider?
The PMAG route certainly looks attractive but the 6cyl version is a brand-new beast. It probably won't be by the time I have to purchase but I want to consider all my options carefully.
Your input on decision factors would be appreciated. I've searched but couldn't find anything with my limited search skills...
Thanks!
__________________
Eric Rushing
RV-10
90% done, 90% to go.
Looks like an airplane!
Molalla, OR
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04-24-2015, 06:11 PM
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Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: Minneapolis, MN
Posts: 17
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I've been flying my IO-360 FI RV6 since 2001 and thoroughly enjoy flying with FI. Flying LOP at 5 gph is a leisurely way to enjoy the local scenery. Recently I replace a magneto and Lightspeed with two P-Mags. On my first flight I leaned to 4.4 gph. I dub the setting Rotax mode.
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