ECI Cold induction and Sam James cowling

[rose1265]

I am putting an ECI XIO 360 with cold induction in my 7A. I was also planning on using Sam James cowling and Veterman exaust. I just talked to Larry Veterman about the exaust and he indicated he does not make exaust any more for James cowling because of the close fit of the cowling and the problems people are having fitting the cowl. Is anyone building this combination or have any experience with SJ cowlings in general that might help me make a decision. I have ordered the finish kit sans cowling, but I can still change it and go with Vans cowling. I really don't want to have to fabricate a custom exaust. SJ cowlings are neat and I know there are a lot of them out there. Any experiences will be appreciated. rose1265@comcast.net

[RV7Guy]

Not sure why you want to go with the Sam James cowl. You can use the Van's cowl and modify the inlets like the SJ. Bob at Fairings etc. can do this for you. Also will need to modify for the intake.

Robbie Attaway is using this system with his ECI engine. He has one of the prototypes and it is working great. Modified Van's cowl. He can be contacted at www.attawair.com

[Bob Axsom]

[IMG][/IMG]
I don't know a thing about the SJ cowl but It is a tight fit in the Van's cowl as well. I had to modify the Vetterman exhaust and put some very expensive thermal blanket in the left side of the lower cowl (after I repaired the burned cowl) to eliminate the heat problem. The initial problem was intensified by incorrectly set timing from the Lycoming factory but it remained a problem to a lessor degree after that problem was finally fixed.

Bob Axsom

Follow-up: Larry Vetterman read this post and contacted me via e-mail right away to get to the bottom of the situation. I appreciate finding out why I had so much trouble and that it has been fixed. As you can see in the e-mail trail he offered to fix my system after all these years but I declined because the system works fine now. Here is the e-mail between the two of us explaining that the problem came up when Van's Aircraft went to the new (at the time I bought my finishing kit) cowl. The change ... well you can read for yourself below. It is cut and pasted right out of the e-mail so you have to read the last message listed here first to get the proper order.

Larry,

I will post this on the web and thanks for the generous offer to modify my
pipes after all this time but they work OK now.

Thanks again,

Bob Axsom

----- Original Message -----
From: "Larry & Cathy Vetterman" <vetxaust@gwtc.net>
To: <jeaninebob@cox.net>
Sent: Friday, November 10, 2006 1:50 PM
Subject: Re: exhaust


> Bob, This is what I thought the situation was. We exchanged almost 50
> systems for the new style back then and sent them back out for the -8 as
> they would work on that model.. The new style system was raised up so the
> #2 pipe now comes in on the side as #3 does. Since that time there has
not
> been a problem such as you have, using a Van's cowl. My concern with the
> picture on the web is that builders will think they will have the same
type
> of problem with our system when in fact that is not the case. I believe
an
> expanation of this should be placed on the web. If you would send us your
> system, we would modify pipes one and two to the design needed for the
> prepreg cowl. Larry
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: <jeaninebob@cox.net>
> To: "Larry & Cathy Vetterman" <vetxaust@gwtc.net>
> Sent: Friday, November 10, 2006 1:19 PM
> Subject: Re: exhaust
>
>
> > Yes it is. I got one of the new cowls just after Van's Aircraft first
> announced they were available. I had a severe problem with the ignition
> timing set by Lycoming on the LASAR ignition that I'm sure was due to
> unfamiliarity. Part of the modification I made was to cut off the pipes
at
> the slip joint under cylinder #2 to bring the crossover up as far away
from
> the cowl as possible and replace the link with one made out of hardware
> store steel. The cowl was still very hot to the touch. It seems to be
> doing OK with the aluminum backed silica thermal blanket (from Aircraft
> Spruce) glued to the inside of the cowl with 3M thermal strip adhesive. I
> have about 270 hours of operation on it and the outer surface is now cool.
> In the last 20 hours or so I have added a baffle between the pipes and the
> cowl to direct the cooling air to the cowl outlet. This seems to help as
> well.
> >
> > Bob Axsom
> >
> >
> > ---- Larry & Cathy Vetterman <vetxaust@gwtc.net> wrote:
> > > Bob I noticed on the web that you have a burned area on the lower
cowl.
> The only reason I can think that the exhaust is too close to the cowl is a
> new style prepreg cowling and the original exhaust system. This
combination
> make the exhaust pipes too close. When we discovered this about 8 years
or
> so ago, we changed the exhaust as 2 inches of clearance was taken out of
the
> prepreg cowl compared to the old original style. Let me know if this is
> what you have. Larry @ Vetterman Exhaust
> >
> >
>
>

[pat]

check out the showplanes cowl. built to house the 540 so the ECI 360 (which I also just recd) with cold induction should work fine..... I hope

www.showplanes.com

[hevansrv7a]

I have the Superior XP IO-360 Plus, Vetterman exhaust supplied in Van's FWFWD kit, SJ cowl. Mine is a -7A. I don't see a problem with the fit. The only place the exhaust comes near the cowl is at the exit point on the bottom. I even left about 2" extra material aft of the firewall plane on the bottom scoop. I do think the foil liner is a good idea anyhow, mostly on the sides near the first part of the pipes where they are hottest.

Modifying the inlets on a Van's cowl is not the same IMHO. Not only is the SJ cowl longer (think 4" prop extender), the SJ cowl slopes down more on top on either side of the raised portion for the prop spinner. I am sure of this because I had to cut down my baffles (from the kit) before the cowl would even sit where it is supposed to. Never mind the gap for the rubber that would have gone at the top. I used Sam's plenum, of course.

[N62XS]

Darwin:

Could you elaborate on the mods Bob is doing?

[frankh]

Originally Posted by hevansrv7a

I have the Superior XP IO-360 Plus, Vetterman exhaust supplied in Van's FWFWD kit, SJ cowl. Mine is a -7A. I don't see a problem with the fit. The only place the exhaust comes near the cowl is at the exit point on the bottom. I even left about 2" extra material aft of the firewall plane on the bottom scoop. I do think the foil liner is a good idea anyhow, mostly on the sides near the first part of the pipes where they are hottest.

Modifying the inlets on a Van's cowl is not the same IMHO. Not only is the SJ cowl longer (think 4" prop extender), the SJ cowl slopes down more on top on either side of the raised portion for the prop spinner. I am sure of this because I had to cut down my baffles (from the kit) before the cowl would even sit where it is supposed to. Never mind the gap for the rubber that would have gone at the top. I used Sam's plenum, of course.

Depends on the prop...For the FF induction (don't know specifically about the induction you are considering) you will need a 2 and 5/8ths extension if using a Hartz compact hub prop...My extension was 2.25" and the Vettterman exh fit perfectly.

Frank
7a James Cowl